Poll: response to recent PWCC revelations

griffon512 · #1 06-13-2019, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

PSA’s incompetence is not criminal, just as stupidity isn’t criminalized either.

jeff/peter, do you think psa's actions (or lack thereof) were negligent? do you think a judge/jury would find them negligent (either criminal or civil)?

Peter_Spaeth · #2 06-13-2019, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffon512

jeff/peter, do you think psa's actions (or lack thereof) were negligent? do you a judge/jury would find them negligent (either criminal or civil)?

If I were claiming PSA misgraded a card I bought, I would just bring a claim on their guarantee, which is an easier case in the nature of strict liability, I'm not sure why I would go to negligence although I'd have to think about it further.

calvindog · #3 06-13-2019, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If I were claiming PSA misgraded a card I bought, I would just bring a claim on their guarantee, which is an easier case in the nature of strict liability, I'm not sure why I would go to negligence although I'd have to think about it further.

Right. Their negligence triggers their guarantee.

PSA has always banked on people not willing to sue them due to the relatively small amount in dispute when they misgrade a card. So they refuse to honor the guarantee for any reason they think will fit, and rarely pay out.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 06-13-2019, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Right. Their negligence triggers their guarantee.

PSA has always banked on people not willing to sue them due to the relatively small amount in dispute when they misgrade a card. So they refuse to honor the guarantee for any reason they think will fit, and rarely pay out.

There doesn't even need to be underlying negligence. Maybe the doctoring was so good they couldn't have detected it using ordinary care; but you can now prove it was doctored through before and after photos. Still liable. The guarantee has no exceptions.

calvindog · #5 06-13-2019, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There doesn't even need to be underlying negligence. Maybe the doctoring was so good they couldn't have detected it using ordinary care; but you can now prove it was doctored through before and after photos. Still liable. The guarantee has no exceptions.

I've heard that a lot -- that the doctoring is so good that PSA can't detect it. But this is basically the main thing they're being paid to do: to detect alterations. Maybe if they spent more than 10 seconds grading a card they'd be able to see that the card is short. Or that a blacklight would expose added color. Or that a look with a loupe would show that one edge is worn differently than the other three. I don't buy the argument that the doctoring is so good to easily fool PSA. I think PSA is so bad that the doctoring doesn't have to be so good.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 06-13-2019, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

I've heard that a lot -- that the doctoring is so good that PSA can't detect it. But this is basically the main thing they're being paid to do: to detect alterations. Maybe if they spent more than 10 seconds grading a card they'd be able to see that the card is short. Or that a blacklight would expose added color. Or that a look with a loupe would show that one edge is worn differently than the other three. I don't buy the argument that the doctoring is so good to easily fool PSA. I think PSA is so bad that the doctoring doesn't have to be so good.

I only meant to point out the scope of the guarantee. It doesn't matter if they were negligent or legitimately fooled.

Snapolit1 · #7 06-13-2019, 03:40 PM

It’s simply amazing that’s a major swath of this board has apparently not been participating in PWCC auctions for sometime, yet in the past year I’ve been outbid on over 95% of the high end items I’ve bid on.

I call bullshit.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 06-13-2019, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

It�s simply amazing that�s a major swath of this board has apparently not been participating in PWCC auctions for sometime, yet in the past year I�ve been outbid on over 95% of the high end items I�ve bid on.

I call bullshit.

They might have done you a favor by outbidding you, Steve.

bnorth · #9 06-13-2019, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

It�s simply amazing that�s a major swath of this board has apparently not been participating in PWCC auctions for sometime, yet in the past year I�ve been outbid on over 95% of the high end items I�ve bid on.

I call bullshit.

I hate to tell you but Net54 is a very small forum with very few active members. So even if every Net54 member quit bidding in PWCC auctions it would make little to no difference.

So call BS all you want.

irv · #10 06-13-2019, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLongley

Forbes article...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rayglie.../#5439c3bf2152

What happened to David Seidman? Oh, that's right, he only talks about the great things Brent has done for the hobby.

Peter_Spaeth · #11 06-13-2019, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irv

What happened to David Seidman? Oh, that's right, he only talks about the great things Brent has done for the hobby.

There is a thread about a piece he wrote today.

View Poll Results: What is your response to the recent PWCC revelations?
1. I wasn't buying from or consigning to PWCC in the first place.	166	34.87%
I will no longer buy from/consign to PWCC.	163	34.24%
I will continue to buy from/consign to PWCC.	78	16.39%
I haven't decided	69	14.50%
Voters: 476. You may not vote on this poll

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