PSA Debacle - What to do for a Novice Collector?

[bnorth]

The PSA sells for more makes no sense to me at all. Most seem to ignore that means you are paying more for it.

SGC is more consistent at grading and they are generally cheaper to buy. That means when you sell it you are still going to get the lower SGC price. The big plus is you can own a nice card a little cheaper in a WAY nicer looking slab.

[JoeDfan]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The PSA sells for more makes no sense to me at all. Most seem to ignore that means you are paying more for it.

SGC is more consistent at grading and they are generally cheaper to buy. That means when you sell it you are still going to get the lower SGC price. The big plus is you can own a nice card a little cheaper in a WAY nicer looking slab.

+1

[Shortstopguy12]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The PSA sells for more makes no sense to me at all. Most seem to ignore that means you are paying more for it.

SGC is more consistent at grading and they are generally cheaper to buy. That means when you sell it you are still going to get the lower SGC price. The big plus is you can own a nice card a little cheaper in a WAY nicer looking slab.

This is all very true. I think I may look more into this, as I would rather have the nicer card

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The PSA sells for more makes no sense to me at all. Most seem to ignore that means you are paying more for it.

SGC is more consistent at grading and they are generally cheaper to buy. That means when you sell it you are still going to get the lower SGC price. The big plus is you can own a nice card a little cheaper in a WAY nicer looking slab.

I could not agree more with every single thing you said.

[jchcollins]

If you go over on the prewar / main board, you will find a lot of consensus with the opinion that PSA still sells for more because big picture, the vast majority of collectors and investors of their product are either woefully ill-informed on the scandal, or (worse) know and simply do not care. Big wheel collectors of high-end vintage face a very bleak proposition if they truly care about cards not being altered, or the fact that their incredible PSA 8 T206 Whatever HOF'er that is worth 5 or 6 figures on the open market may suddenly be worth DRAMATICALLY less if they tell someone they care about that fact, and start a movement to trash PSA, their market value, and the value that their slabs currently bring to cards and collections. Mainly that said market value will drop quickly, and they will be left holding the bag.

Soooo....ummmm, why not just leave well enough alone? Yes, that card may be altered now that I read all this, but you know it looks really nice in that new slab, and it's in my safe deposit box anyway, and it would be really hard to prove for sure, er - wouldn't it?

It becomes an ends justifying the means situation. Not enough people care or have any real desire to burst the bubble to come forward. So what, some waves are being made on some message boards where people really care about the hobby. This too, shall pass. I could be wrong, but I will be very surprised if in the next 6-18 months, people start coming forward en masse to demand that PSA make good on their grading guarantee for a bunch of high dollar cards in slabs with grades that they don't agree with.

It's just stuff...right?

[Johnny630]

John,

Everything you said is 100% true and the bottom line.

Well put

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

John,

Everything you said is 100% true and the bottom line.

Well put

Thanks.

[SOX75]

I have personally chosen to wait until the FBI concludes their investigation and hands the case to the US Attorneys Office before I buy any more high end vintage PSA cards. There's still a few unknowns about what role PSA had in certifying these cards. We do know that card doctors targeted high end vintage cards to alter. We also know that they trimmed cards worth less than $5. It's hard to know what is safe at this point. The '54 Aaron would be riskier than most at this point.

If I was considering buying something I would do a certification lookup to see if PWCC had their hands on a card at any time. I would also closely inspect the difference between the edges of the card and the interior holders on the slab. The trimmed cards that I have seen all have a noticeable gap, indicating that the card would be loose and move around inside the slab.

[drcy]

I largely, and respectfully, disagree with John and Johnny's theories.

Do people who own and have large amounts of money and belong to the PSA registry want altered cards to be priced by the grade label? Of course. Will people involved in the current PSA system want things priced that way? I assume for many, yes.

Will future collectors, people who are obtaining rather than currently invested, consider value that way? I doubt it. Will a future buyer pay the same invest the same amount of money than he otherwise would have in a card he knows is likely altered because of the incorrect label? I doubt it.

I think valuations will shift and change for graded cards, especially high-grade cards, as knowledge spreads and as new buyers not invested in the old system enter.

Another practical and major problem for the PSA 'true believers' is that when cards come up for sale and shown to be altered, that has to be addressed-- possibly the auction stopped, the card in its holdered form being removed from the market, or, at least, the seller overtly saying that this card is altered, mislabelled and being sold as such. If the card is proven to be altered, PSA itself may insist the card be removed from the holder and the serial number removed from the database. The PSA registry card owner's ideology about "buy the label" will be irrelevant in that matter, and it will be out of his hand. The involvement of lawyers and the FBI in the PWCC sales have shown this.

In fact, I am sure some big PSA registry owners are currently thinking "How do I go about selling my collection, knowing that many cards will be shown to be altered?" I assume that some have already consulted lawyers.

As people say, science doesn't care about your feelings . . . And the law doesn't care about baseball card sentiments. PWCC's arguments of "it's okay, just ignore the conservation and focus on the label' already hasn't worked with the FBI.