Class action suit filed against PSA, PWCC and Probstein

[rats60]

It has been 9 1/2 months since this problem was exposed. The grading companies are doing record business. There could never be another vintage card graded and the companies would hardly feel the effect.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...trading-cards/

it’s the modern sports card market that’s primarily responsible for unprecedented levels of submissions and revenue.

“This rejuvenated segment of the market is more robust that at any point in our company’s history as younger generations of collectors are becoming more active,” Orlando stated. “In fact, around 80% of our approximately one million count backlog are of the modern variety at PSA and the vast majority of that 80% are sports cards.”

https://www.beckett.com/grading/guranteed

With that said, the number of cards Beckett is receiving daily has begun to eclipse the volume our staff can properly handle with strict guarantees in place. From invoicing, to card identification, to grading, to shipping…..cards are coming in at a rate never seen in our history.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by rats60

it’s the modern sports card market that’s primarily responsible for unprecedented levels of submissions and revenue.

“This rejuvenated segment of the market is more robust that at any point in our company’s history as younger generations of collectors are becoming more active,” Orlando stated. “In fact, around 80% of our approximately one million count backlog are of the modern variety at PSA and the vast majority of that 80% are sports cards.”

https://www.beckett.com/grading/guranteed

With that said, the number of cards Beckett is receiving daily has begun to eclipse the volume our staff can properly handle with strict guarantees in place. From invoicing, to card identification, to grading, to shipping…..cards are coming in at a rate never seen in our history.

This is the generation who are OK with altered cards receiving a numerical grade.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

This is the generation who are OK with altered cards receiving a numerical grade.

Don't do the whole "younger generations are always worse" thing about this. There are tons of people regularly still paying full retail for pwcc/prob high end PSA grade 8-9 cards of post-war vintage HOFers that could easily be altered, and you know it's usually not going to be some 22 year old paying 1500 bucks for some grade 9 Hank Aaron from the late '60s.

Plenty of people of all ages are accountable for continuing to keep the grading companies (and the auction houses who have helped them) flush with $

[HRBAKER]

"If you or a loved one has purchased a card graded by any of these companies from any of these sellers, you may be entitled to compensation. Please call our offices."

[Fred]

Are we taking odds here? If so, what's the odds that anything will be done about this? Even money? Or is that a bit too high on the odds?

How about the following bet - what will be the odds that after this blows over, things will be "business as usual" again? I'm putting 1/5 odds on that.

For me, I don't buy into the high grade bull shit. I'm just as happy with a lower grade card of the player than having a "9" or "10". Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate a nice looking card but with all the crap that goes on in this hobby, I wouldn't pay "bank" for any of those cards in slabs.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

"If you or a loved one has purchased a card graded by any of these companies from any of these sellers, you may be entitled to compensation. Please call our offices."

That's probably a lot of people.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Don't do the whole "younger generations are always worse" thing about this.

Nowadays when someone opens a pack, and there's a dinged card, they can send it back and have the company make them a new one.

That's not a pack pulled card anymore. It's manufactured to be in mint condition.

I do believe future generations of collectors will be OK with trimming, cleaning, color touch, etc. At the rate we're at, they really have no other choice.

[perezfan]

NM. Nothing will change. I guess that we just accept the new tenets and prevailing mindset of the hobby or get out.

Impossible to try to instill change when nobody wants it.

[Republicaninmass]

Quite a few posters sharing a brain these days.


No wonder quite a the "favorite" posters have stopped posting on the boards.

Much like the netflix documentary


" Save the hobby, and ____yourself"


Hard to believe the amount of wanna be attorneys , tough guys and knuckleheads parading around here lately. I guess it takes all type of people to make a world. 99% havent a freaking clue.

If I pay for a PSA ad, can we keep these posts in the watercooler section? I'm sure I could get a few donations. Your spewing on these boards does absolutely nothing. People here are still buying from PWCC submitting to PSA etc. Maybe if you insult enough people, there won't be a board anymore.

[trambo]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Quite a few posters sharing a brain these days.


Hard to believe the amount of wanna be attorneys , tough guys and knuckleheads parading around here lately. I guess it takes all type of people to make a world. 99% havent a freaking clue.

+1 to that one! No doubt there's something bad going on. Also no doubt it's been going on forever and isn't limited to TPG's not catching everything they should! People have been altering cards for a very long time. Not condoning it. Just saying it's been a thing.

Would love to see one of the people you mention above actually post something positive about the hobby for a change. After all, collecting should be fun! Plus it may just keep people posting on Net54! Wouldn't that be novel!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by trambo

+1 to that one! No doubt there's something bad going on. Also no doubt it's been going on forever and isn't limited to TPG's not catching everything they should! People have been altering cards for a very long time. Not condoning it. Just saying it's been a thing.

Would love to see one of the people you mention above actually post something positive about the hobby for a change. After all, collecting should be fun! Plus it may just keep people posting on Net54! Wouldn't that be novel!

Right, just stick our heads in the sand and think happy thoughts and all the problems will go away....

If only it worked like that.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by steve B

Right, just stick our heads in the sand and think happy thoughts and all the problems will go away....

If only it worked like that.

Because posting here has such a profound effect

[conor912]

Originally Posted by steve B

Right, just stick our heads in the sand and think happy thoughts and all the problems will go away....

If only it worked like that.

I’m always amazed at how many people operate on this level. My in-laws are a prime example. They ignore/deflect every hard discussion and convince themselves the world is kittens and rainbows. There are many more people in the world who aren’t strong enough to face reality than are.

[Arsenal83]

I posted this on the Collector's Universe forum and the idiot moderator banned me 2 minutes later. I guess it's time for an alt account over there.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by conor912

I’m always amazed at how many people operate on this level. My in-laws are a prime example. They ignore/deflect every hard discussion and convince themselves the world is kittens and rainbows. There are many more people in the world who aren’t strong enough to face reality than are.

It's almost worse than that Conor. If you dont agree with what people are saying, you MUST disagree and immediately are pigeon holed to the extreme other side of the argument. It like politics, which we dont discuss here on the boards.

[trambo]

Originally Posted by steve B

Right, just stick our heads in the sand and think happy thoughts and all the problems will go away....

If only it worked like that.

Of course someone would take it that way. There's no doubt an issue but it's not a new issue. This is the current iteration of something that's been going on for decades. People trim, color and otherwise alter cards. Those people are bad. That hasn't changed. What seems to have changed are those people who relentlessly beat the drum in front of people who already are well aware there's an issue and bash and bully them if they don't also start beating the drum.

There's an issue. I'm aware. I don't think it's as bad as the people who keep calling me an idiot, stupid, a sheep and lots of other words I don't care to post think it is. I've also not buried my head in the sand. I own and use a ruler. I own several loupes. I don't buy from PWCC. I still collect PSA graded cards. I'm paying attention. So please don't say just because people want to have discussions about other things have heads buried in the sand. It's just that we get it!

I'm sure there are many others who read these boards that feel the same way.

[HRBAKER]

Sure it has always gone on. The difference now is that the money and stakes are much higher and the folks that have marketed us their protection services have proven to be better marketers than anything else.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by trambo

Of course someone would take it that way. There's no doubt an issue but it's not a new issue. This is the current iteration of something that's been going on for decades. People trim, color and otherwise alter cards. Those people are bad. That hasn't changed. What seems to have changed are those people who relentlessly beat the drum in front of people who already are well aware there's an issue and bash and bully them if they don't also start beating the drum.

There's an issue. I'm aware. I don't think it's as bad as the people who keep calling me an idiot, stupid, a sheep and lots of other words I don't care to post think it is. I've also not buried my head in the sand. I own and use a ruler. I own several loupes. I don't buy from PWCC. I still collect PSA graded cards. I'm paying attention. So please don't say just because people want to have discussions about other things have heads buried in the sand. It's just that we get it!

I'm sure there are many others who read these boards that feel the same way.

Other than the part about still collecting PSA cards I'm in nearly the same spot. Magnifier, good measuring tools, knowing what to look for.
It's not that I won't collect a card that PSA has already graded, but I probably won't send them any either. And likely won't be interested in paying a premium either. Not like I did in the past, I have maybe 5-6 PSA graded cards, and most of those came out of packs. (I have an ACU-Grade graded card, so obviously even a sketchy grading slab isn't out of the question at the right price. And yes, it's trimmed.)

I also really doubt I'll send any more to either SGC or Beckett. I used to send a few cards to SGC every couple years. Never say never, but I've seen stuff from both that makes me not want to give them any money.

The stuff that's shown so far is bad, and in some cases, it goes beyond what I can see justifying a claim of mere incompetence.
Sometimes I wonder how bad it would have to be before people abandoned PSA?

As far as this thread goes, I think that a suit against two large resellers and the largest grading company is news that goes beyond the "Hey the blowout guys caught another one"

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by trambo

Of course someone would take it that way. There's no doubt an issue but it's not a new issue. This is the current iteration of something that's been going on for decades. People trim, color and otherwise alter cards. Those people are bad. That hasn't changed. What seems to have changed are those people who relentlessly beat the drum in front of people who already are well aware there's an issue and bash and bully them if they don't also start beating the drum.

There's an issue. I'm aware. I don't think it's as bad as the people who keep calling me an idiot, stupid, a sheep and lots of other words I don't care to post think it is. I've also not buried my head in the sand. I own and use a ruler. I own several loupes. I don't buy from PWCC. I still collect PSA graded cards. I'm paying attention. So please don't say just because people want to have discussions about other things have heads buried in the sand. It's just that we get it!

I'm sure there are many others who read these boards that feel the same way.

+1

Steve

[benge610]

RE: "I own and use a ruler. I own several loupes. I don't buy from PWCC. I still collect PSA graded cards. I'm paying attention. So please don't say just because people want to have discussions about other things have heads buried in the sand. It's just that we get it!"

Thank you Troy for stating. I am perfectly fine "bottom feeding" real raw/graded caramels; it is still a most enjoyable hobby.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

.

If I pay for a PSA ad, can we keep these posts in the watercooler section?

Haha. Nice.