Babe Ruth General Gum Sign/Display - Black Light PIX added FINALLY

[Shoeless Moe]

Haha it is sad my black light has died, had it since the 70's and worked last time I plugged it in 5 years ago.

Might be time to invest in a new one.

Thank you he who provided the specifics on which one to get.

Chad - would this one work:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/14362174060...0AAOSwmCZe1b80


Surely, (don't call me Shirley), there has to be someone on NET54 in the Chicagoland area with some knowledge.

Bueller? Bueller?

[Jobu]

I think David Cycleback is at Northwestern University and is an expert - also a board member. You might shoot him a pm.

As for looking at the printing, you are looking for halftone, see pg 80-84 of David's book:

https://cycleback.files.wordpress.co..._an_intr-1.pdf

I felt strongly the back was authentic looking. Hard to tell about the front from the picture. I don't see many people being able to fake that light fading on cardboard. That happens naturally and it looked like the real thing to me compared to many paper items in my collection. I do hope it's real as it is a very cool piece.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Jobu

I think David Cycleback is at Northwestern University and is an expert - also a board member. You might shoot him a pm.

As for looking at the printing, you are looking for halftone, see pg 80-84 of David's book:

https://cycleback.files.wordpress.co..._an_intr-1.pdf

forensic evaluation is in order...David!

[bigfanNY]

Just saw this and I come out on the 100% fake side. If this was a cell phone case or a throw pillow I might say 99%. I saw some of these items at Michael's or Hobby Lobby and recognized the image right away.
I would be looking for a refund.
J

[bigfanNY]

As for a Curtis Candy sign 0% chance of that Ruth hated them. Ruth never saw a dime from them. Curtis candy claimed to have named it after President Clevland's Daughter Ruth. But won a copyright dispute against a Bar named after Babe Ruth.
J

[Shoeless Moe]

So since I'm not getting any replies from anyone in the Chicagoland area where I can drive it over to them, is there anyone here who is confident they could tell if it is real or fake if they had it in their possession?

I prefer someone who is certain they could, if in hand, and then prove why it is or isn't. Not just "doesn't look good", or "it has that look", or "yah I think it's good."
I need certainty, one way or the other.

I will pay for shipping to and from.

PM me and give me a little info how you are going to prove or disprove, and/or if you have similar pieces from that time frame.

[drcy]

A test is to look at the other stuff the seller sells. If it is also antique stuff that appears authentic, that means the seller appears to have a running knowledge, feel and experience for old stuff.

When I would buy expensive rare antique photos on eBay I would always check what else the seller sold. If he sold other photos that I knew were authentic that was evidence the seller had knowledge about what he was selling. From the variety of other antique photos the seller sold and the knowledgeable ways he described them, you could quickly identify a seller who knew old photos.

On the flip side, if the seller is selling nothing else remotely related to the rare item or a lot of cheap reprints and fakes, you know you should have strong skepticism.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by drcy

A test is to look at the other stuff the seller sells. If it is also antique stuff that appears authentic, that means the seller appears to have a running knowledge, feel and experience for old stuff.

When I would buy expensive rare antique photos on eBay I would always check what else the seller sold. If he sold other photos that I knew were authentic that was evidence the seller had knowledge about what he was selling. From the variety of other antique photos the seller sold and the knowledgeable ways he described them, you could quickly identify a seller who knew old photos.

On the flip side, if the seller is selling nothing else remotely related to the rare item or a lot of cheap reprints and fakes, you know you should have strong skepticism.

I'm not really sure that really helps in determining the authenticity of this piece. Yes if the seller had a Feedback of (0) or even (18) that would be a HUGE flag. OR......if they sold Fakes as you mentioned, but that is pretty much a no-brainer with sellers to avoid and doesn't apply here. His Feedback is like (1800) and no history of fakes.

And just because they sell antiques I don't know that would qualify them for knowing if this piece was fake or real. They can't know every category of item. Shit Rick Harrison has bought a few fakes, and while some may not like Rick, I feel he does have a wide array of knowledge. And I personally have great knowledge and can tell Real vs. Fake on vintage baseballs & vintage tickets, but i couldn't guarantee a Real/Fake autograph or vintage W.S. pin. So this seller may know some antiques, but not others. So again sorry, but I can't get on board with the knowledgeable antique seller theory. It's very hard to know all baseball memorabilia.

I thought you, since you wrote on Fakes/Reproductions would know from the material, the coloring, the printing, the aging, etc. that you spoke of in your very interesting book that Bryan mentions (and provides a link to) in Post 46 of this thread?

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Just saw this and I come out on the 100% fake side. If this was a cell phone case or a throw pillow I might say 99%. I saw some of these items at Michael's or Hobby Lobby and recognized the image right away.
I would be looking for a refund.
J

I'm not sure you "always acknowledged that there is a small possibility that this is real," but at least you are becoming more convinced now! The literature, physical evidence, and facts have overwhelmed you it appears.

[conor912]

Regardless of the consensus, I love that items like this make for great, informative discussion.

[Jobu]

His Net54 username is drcy

Originally Posted by Jobu

I think David Cycleback is at Northwestern University and is an expert - also a board member. You might shoot him a pm.

As for looking at the printing, you are looking for halftone, see pg 80-84 of David's book:

https://cycleback.files.wordpress.co..._an_intr-1.pdf

[RCMcKenzie]

It's unusual that an image of a new discovery from an antique dealer would already be a stock image for t-shirts and posters and coffee mugs at a large online print shop. The print shop found the only other one known back in 2019, and without fanfare, used it for pillow cases? Do they still have their original?

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

It's unusual that an image of a new discovery from an antique dealer would already be a stock image for t-shirts and posters and coffee mugs at a large online print shop. The print shop found the only other one known back in 2019, and without fanfare, used it for pillow cases? Do they still have their original?

That would be highly unusual. It looks like that seller takes copies of a wide range of rare items and turns them into pillow cases. Here are a few more Ruth pillow cases you can have made, along with examples from a few auction houses. The fact that this seller sells copies doesn't delegitimize original items. One could argue that it's actually a rather impressive archive of a wide array of images.

Ruth Baseball Game
https://fineartamerica.com/featured/...tion-road.html
https://loveofthegameauctions.com/lot-10015.aspx

Ruth Award Certificate
https://fineartamerica.com/featured/...tion-road.html
https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c.../50023-50135.s

Ruth Membership Card
https://fineartamerica.com/featured/...tion-road.html
https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...ling-envelope/

Ruth Old Gold
https://fineartamerica.com/featured/...tion-road.html
https://goldinauctions.com/magnifice...v-lot9948.aspx

I'm not thinking any of the above items are fantasy pieces. All of them appear to have been loaded in 2019, so that doesn't change much.

Wherever that seller got the image of the item in question, it is different as can be seen with examination. If that seller did save an image of a fantasy item, it's odd no more examples can be found. The source of the other image is rather interesting. Looking at them next together and examining the red print shift and print flaws, it appears that neither is a modern digital copy of the other. Even the tab alignments vary, but remain consistent.

[RCMcKenzie]

Here's the coffee mug. Doesn't the image appear to be in mint condition? If this piece is newly discovered this week on ebay, how did the print shop already have the image?

[Hankphenom]

So many questions, this thread is really interesting. Just based on its appearance, which to my eyes just doesn't look naturally aged or toned, I'm pretty sure it's a fake, but where did the forger get that fabulous image to copy if nobody here has ever seen one? And as many have pointed out, if they put it together themselves, where are the things from which they amalgamated to create this, and what a lot of effort (and skill) to go to to make $500 or even a grand doing it! What about the seller? Have they been contacted to try to get an answer about where they got it? That mug is great, by the way, I wouldn't mind drinking my coffee out of one. But where did THEY get the image?

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Jobu

His Net54 username is drcy

Just PM'd him. We'll see. Thanks Jobu!