Goldin Vault

morris_14226 · #1 07-27-2021, 11:03 AM

Yes you will need to pay sales tax. My guess would be they would charge the sales tax when they ship it to you.

If you buy high end cards (like a Wagner) you�re an idiot for trying to doge sales tax. States are just salivating to catch those folks. It�s low hanging fruit for them and you have zero defense (like gee I didn�t know I had to pay sales tax on the purchase).

The only way to avoid would be all cash and you�d have to keep the cash out of the banking system, so for a Wagner, you�d have to have like $200 grand in cash on hand. Once you put it someplace (bank) or sell itbe card and put the $ somewhere the governments (state and federal) are going to come asking how you came about $200 grand with no trace.

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Peter_Spaeth · #2 07-27-2021, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris_14226

Yes you will need to pay sales tax. My guess would be they would charge the sales tax when they ship it to you.

If you buy high end cards (like a Wagner) you’re an idiot for trying to doge sales tax. States are just salivating to catch those folks. It’s low hanging fruit for them and you have zero defense (like gee I didn’t know I had to pay sales tax on the purchase).

The only way to avoid would be all cash and you’d have to keep the cash out of the banking system, so for a Wagner, you’d have to have like $200 grand in cash on hand. Once you put it someplace (bank) or sell itbe card and put the $ somewhere the governments (state and federal) are going to come asking how you came about $200 grand with no trace.

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My guess is that once the card has been shipped to the vault, sales/use tax becomes the owner's responsibility. That's probably why people do this, so it isn't automatically collected.

buymycards · #3 07-27-2021, 11:16 AM

I must be missing something. Even if it goes to the vault, you purchased it, you own it, why would the location of the card matter? It seems like you will owe the sales tax whether it is stored under your mattress or whether it is stored in Goldin's vault.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 07-27-2021, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buymycards

I must be missing something. Even if it goes to the vault, you purchased it, you own it, why would the location of the card matter? It seems like you will owe the sales tax whether it is stored under your mattress or whether it is stored in Goldin's vault.

If you win something from Goldin and he ships to a state without sales tax, he doesn't have to collect the tax for the state at the time of sale. So, as I understand how this works, it then shifts responsibility to the buyer, and of course buyers just don't pay sales tax on internet transactions all the time, unless the seller collects it from them.

chriskim · #5 07-27-2021, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If you win something from Goldin and he ships to a state without sales tax, he doesn't have to collect the tax for the state at the time of sale. So, as I understand how this works, it then shifts responsibility to the buyer, and of course buyers just don't pay sales tax on internet transactions all the time, unless the seller collects it from them.

I always wonder whether auction houses really file those sales tax that they collected from buyers to IRS "completely"..... or they just end up become "jerked up" buyer's premium.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 07-27-2021, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chriskim

I always wonder whether auction houses really file those sales tax that they collected from buyers to IRS "completely"..... or they just end up become "jerked up" buyer's premium.

It's individual states not the IRS, right? Sales tax is not federal. But I am sure they comply with the law, would be really stupid to take that risk.

buymycards · #7 07-27-2021, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If you win something from Goldin and he ships to a state without sales tax, he doesn't have to collect the tax for the state at the time of sale. So, as I understand how this works, it then shifts responsibility to the buyer, and of course buyers just don't pay sales tax on internet transactions all the time, unless the seller collects it from them.

Thank you for clarifying that. I have the feeling that some states will catch on to that scenario and modify their rules. It seems like if I live in Wisconsin, if I purchase an item, I owe the tax and it doesn't matter where the item is shipped to.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 07-27-2021, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buymycards

Thank you for clarifying that. I have the feeling that some states will catch on to that scenario and modify their rules. It seems like if I live in Wisconsin, if I purchase an item, I owe the tax and it doesn't matter where the item is shipped to.

That would be my belief.

BobC · #9 07-27-2021, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buymycards

Thank you for clarifying that. I have the feeling that some states will catch on to that scenario and modify their rules. It seems like if I live in Wisconsin, if I purchase an item, I owe the tax and it doesn't matter where the item is shipped to.

Not necessarily. Especially if you are talking about someone who is into buying/investing as opposed to simply collecting. Businesses can have a main office that receives and pays everything out of one location, yet they can have offices and other locations all around the country. The sales tax paid on items purchased by the business is based on where an item is ultimately shipped to and used/kept, not where the main office is or the bills are paid from. If a person is using one of these companies, PWCC or Goldin, to also later on act as their consignor and eventually start selling some of these things for them, you could easily argue the items are collected and stored in the "vaults" for their protection (like a safe deposit box), and for later ease of handling and operation of their sale through PWCC or Goldin, and justify why you did not keep them in a state you lived in. As long as proper records are kept and there is evidence to show items are physically being kept in a state with no sales tax, I'm thinking you have a valid argument. (And also, if you truly are a dealer and the purchases represent inventory, you would technically be exempt from paying sales tax on your purchases as long as you had the proper license(s) and filed the proper resale exemption certificate(s) with the seller(s)).

Lots of people have assets and property in multiple states, and the state their main residence is in does not automatically take precedence over other states you may have assets or property in.

Now as far as having something sent to a state with no sales tax, and then suddenly bringing it back to that state where you now live that does have a sales tax later on, not so sure you would automatically owe sales tax to the state you live in. Say you live in Wisconsin, and also have a vacation home in Delaware. You go to local stores in Delaware and buy all your furnishings and stuff for the vacation property free of sales tax. You also go to a Delaware card or antique shop and find and buy a bunch of N172 Old Judge cards, with again no sales tax since purchased in Delaware, and have them framed and displayed in your vacation home as well. And then the following year, for whatever reason, you sell the Delaware vacation home and move pretty much everything, including the Old Judge cards, back to your main home in Wisconsin. Are you telling me you would now have to pay Wisconsin sales tax on all that stuff you brought back from Delaware, including the OJ cards? What about if you moved items from a former place where you paid a 4% sales tax on everything to a new state/location where you're now subject to an 8% sales tax, do you now owe the additional 4% sales tax difference to the new state/location you brought the items to?

Now if you instead would buy and have cards shipped to one of the PWCC or Goldin "vaults", and then wait say six weeks or so after you had something delivered there before telling whoever (PWCC or Goldin) was holding them for you to now send those cards to you at your Wisconsin home, and you kept doing it with every card you purchased and initially had sent to your "vault", now I can definitely see a potential problem if Wisconsin ever figured out what you were doing. So there may be a big gray area in there.

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