1919 Ruth vs 2021 Ohtani

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

That’s not what I’m saying. Take team stats for the year in question. Ruth hit 29/33 HRs for the BoSox. Otani is hitting 37/137 HRs for the Angels. A great number but no comparison to Ruth.

I’m not comparing the Red Sox team to the Angels team, nor am I claiming any real similarity between 1919 and 2021.

Ruth in 1919 was unique to the game. In 2021 Ohtani is unique to the game.

They are similar in their uniquity in the years cited, even if Ruth is an apple and Ohtani is an orange.

It would be ridiculous too speculate what Ruth’s numbers would look like if he were playing in 2021 and what Ohtani’s numbers would have been had he played in 1919. Would the Red Sox team have hit more home runs in 1919 with Ohtani on the team. C’mon Man.

Three astute members of the forum understand and agree with my premise.

[G1911]

The first post is directly comparing their numbers without regard to the context in which they happened, though. It's not really nitpicking to observe the titanic gulf between offense in 1919 and 2021 that makes directly comparing non-contextual statistics extremely misleading.

Ruth was a much, much better offensive season than Ohtani's in context, but worse pitching (His ERA was 2% better than the league). Ruth's season changed how the offensive game has been played ever since; we shall see if Ohtani has any real effect.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by G1911

The first post is directly comparing their numbers without regard to the context in which they happened, though. It's not really nitpicking to observe the titanic gulf between offense in 1919 and 2021 that makes directly comparing non-contextual statistics extremely misleading.

Ruth was a much, much better offensive season than Ohtani's in context, but worse pitching (His ERA was 2% better than the league). Ruth's season changed how the offensive game has been played ever since; we shall see if Ohtani has any real effect.

Yes, Ruth was much much better, blah, blah, blah, nobody disagrees with you (probably), and Ohtani will probably have no real effect in changing the offensive structure of the game. Ok got it, let's ignore you ignoring the point of Frank's post and allow me to ask you a single question :

What other player, in what other season since 1919 has done anything that could be even remotely compared to Ruth in 1919?

If your answer is "there isn't one" than you are acknowledging that "There is really no other season comparable to 2021 Ohtani since 1919".

I would suggest that it is nitpicking to point out how great Ruth was, the initial post was just saying that nobody compares to The Babe but this Ohtani kid has come closer than anybody in terms of all around pitching & hitting prowess.

Doug "Astutely picking my own Nits" Goodman

[mrreality68]

Ruth vs Ohtani

What Ohtani is doing is amazing this season. His ability and potential is off the charts.
I look forward to watching and enjoying his career.
It is a little disappointing he is on a "Small Market" West Coast team because we on the East Coast miss most of the games and can only see the highlights
Also MLB does not do much to promote their stars so we miss out on that. Although internationally the International Press drives that exposure and he is followed from city to city with alot of international press.
The hope is he stays healthy and lives up to the Hype and potential. This year is great but the past several years health has been an issue and he has missed alot of time.

There will never be another Ruth but I hope we get the The Ohtani that we all want to see

[christopher.herman]

This is stolen verbatim from a quote Babe would give later in the 1918 season: "I don't think a man can pitch in his regular turn and play some other position and keep the pace year after year. I can do it this season all right. I'm young and strong and don't mind the work, but I wouldn't guarantee to do it for many seasons."

[Shoeless Moe]

Funny how the Angels have the 2 greatest players of all time (he said sarcastically) yet they SUCK ASS year after year.

And neither of those players will ever sniff a World Series unless they leave that SHIT HOLE and even then may never, just like Bryce Harper! LOVE IT!!!!

Don't forget to put that in your comparison chart!!!!!

[darwinbulldog]

I don't see anyone catching him in the who-deserves-the-MVP race this year, but if they can give it to Miggy over Trout for a triple crown season they could give it to Vlad Jr. over Ohtani for a triple crown season. That would of course require him to overtake Ohtani in the HR race, which isn't all that likely, but if Joey Votto can hit 8 HRs in 6 days (spoiler: he can) I wouldn't count out Vlad.

[packs]

Ohtani is really good but people should stop comparing him to Babe Ruth. Yes, Babe Ruth pitched too, but he was the greatest player in history. Unlikely ever to be topped.

In 1935 Wes Ferrell hit 342 with 7 homers, 32 RBIs and a 960 OPS while leading the league in wins, complete games and innings pitched. But he was not Babe Ruth either.

[profholt82]

Originally Posted by christopher.herman

This is stolen verbatim from a quote Babe would give later in the 1918 season: "I don't think a man can pitch in his regular turn and play some other position and keep the pace year after year. I can do it this season all right. I'm young and strong and don't mind the work, but I wouldn't guarantee to do it for many seasons."

Ruth likely would have pitched for many years if the DH had existed.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Yes, Ruth was much much better, blah, blah, blah, nobody disagrees with you (probably), and Ohtani will probably have no real effect in changing the offensive structure of the game. Ok got it, let's ignore you ignoring the point of Frank's post and allow me to ask you a single question :

What other player, in what other season since 1919 has done anything that could be even remotely compared to Ruth in 1919?

If your answer is "there isn't one" than you are acknowledging that "There is really no other season comparable to 2021 Ohtani since 1919".

I would suggest that it is nitpicking to point out how great Ruth was, the initial post was just saying that nobody compares to The Babe but this Ohtani kid has come closer than anybody in terms of all around pitching & hitting prowess.

Doug "Astutely picking my own Nits" Goodman

I didn’t even say Ruth was better, I said he was a better hitter in context but a worse pitcher in context. I doubt Ohtani changes the game significantly for the next century as Ruth did, but a reasoned case for Ohtani could be made if one values the pitching more and limits the argument into the confines of the season only.

I would agree with the claim that there are parallels and it is the first significant hitter and pitcher season since Ruth in 1919. But this was not the argument that was actually given, read the OP, it is almost entirely a direct comparison of their statistics stripped of environment context. No one is saying Ohtani is not having a great year, or that there are not parallels, some of us are saying the comparison given should not be stripped of all context. It is not unreasonable to reply to the argument and comparison that is actually put forth. It is not “ignoring the point” to directly address the bulk of the content actually posted.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I’m not comparing the Red Sox team to the Angels team, nor am I claiming any real similarity between 1919 and 2021.

Ruth in 1919 was unique to the game. In 2021 Ohtani is unique to the game.

They are similar in their uniiquity in the years cited, even if Ruth is an apple and Ohtani is an orange.

It would be ridiculous too speculate what Ruth’s numbers would look like if he were playing in 2021 and what Ohtani’s numbers would have been had he played in 1919. Wooud the Red Sox team have hit more home runs in 1919 with Ohtani on the team. C’mon Man.

Three astute members of the forum understand and agree with my premise.

I agree!!