Was the first base umpire correct yesterday?

frankbmd · #1 10-15-2021, 08:02 AM

Why not have the whole game officiated by video replay in New York? It would only add 6 to 7 hours to the length of the game. What say you?

vintagetoppsguy · #2 10-15-2021, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Why not have the whole game officiated by video replay in New York? It would only add 6 to 7 hours to the length of the game. What say you?

If it eliminated the Giants, it was the right call.

frankbmd · #3 10-15-2021, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If it eliminated the Giants, it was the right call.

So the fix was in.

butchie_t · #4 10-15-2021, 10:01 AM

The ump believed he was correct in what he saw. Replay shows otherwise.
I gotta defer to the human element of the game. It has been there long before TV came into the picture.

It sucks but evens itself out over time too.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 10-15-2021, 10:39 AM

At best, an experienced umpire should have seen it as close, in which case you have to resolve it against ending a one run playoff game on a called check swing.

conor912 · #6 10-15-2021, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At best, an experienced umpire should have seen it as close, in which case you have to resolve it against ending a one run playoff game on a called check swing.

Agreed. In that instance the ump should be aware of the situation. Even if it was more borderline (which it wasn't), ending a post-season series on a ticky-tack call like that is just poor form.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 10-15-2021, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912

Agreed. In that instance the ump should be aware of the situation. Even if it was more borderline (which it wasn't), ending a post-season series on a ticky-tack call like that is just poor form.

And with the winning run at the plate no less, with two out in the bottom of the ninth. A WTF moment for sure.

frankbmd · #8 10-15-2021, 11:38 AM

Last week there was the usual argument that the wild card playoff should not be decided by a single game and the Dodgers, a wild card team, had the second best record and that was a crime.

Forget that BS.

Now an elimination game is decided by a first base umpire on a single pitch in the bottom of the ninth with a winning run at the plate. Hopefully he was looking toward the plate, before he made his call. Perhaps he wasn't. That would be his best defense.

Shoeless Moe · #9 10-15-2021, 12:24 PM

Brutal call.

Hopefully Gabe Morales doesn't live in SF.

However, Wilmar Flores was 0 for 17 vs Scherzer, with 8K's. So not sure the outcome would have been any different had it played out.

Didn't SF have anyone on the bench other then a 0 for 17 batter. I question Kapler on that, but don't follow SF closely, and was half asleep so didn't know who else they had, be curious.

BobbyStrawberry · #10 10-15-2021, 01:12 PM

Not having Belt available for the series definitely hurt the Giants.

BobC · #11 10-15-2021, 03:23 PM

In an instance like this, could it have possibly been the call of the umpiring crew chief (don't know who it was) to step in and suggest they look at instant replay since it was a playoff game and all? I know you have to support your fellow umpire and try not to make it look like he made a bad call, but everyone knows that pitch will be replayed over and over for the rest of the world in super slow motion to see. So, if the call wasn't correct the public will know and chastise the umpiring crew (and MLB) even more.

I know that's not the way it works or specifically how the rules are written, but it would be nice for them to get it right.

frankbmd · #12 10-15-2021, 03:58 PM

Do you think that Roberts et al would have has a hissy fit it the umpire had ruled no swing, no strike? I seriously doubt it and it certainly wouldn't be an issue today regardless of who ultimately won the game.

Maybe this belongs on the Condolence thread because the Giants grew up in New York, but then again the Dodgers did too. This game was a no win situation for all ex-pat New Yorkers.

packs · #13 10-15-2021, 04:18 PM

I thought they were liberal with calling strikes on check swings in the AL wild card game too. For both teams.

frankbmd · #14 10-15-2021, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Brutal call.

Hopefully Gabe Morales doesn't live in SF.

However, Wilmar Flores was 0 for 17 vs Scherzer, with 8K's. So not sure the outcome would have been any different had it played out.

Didn't SF have anyone on the bench other then a 0 for 17 batter. I question Kapler on that, but don't follow SF closely, and was half asleep so didn't know who else they had, be curious.

Paul, I more than understand your 0 for 17 Scherzer argument however, a statistician would argue that Flores was not that unlikely to get the game winning hit due to regression to the mean. In other words he was overdue. If you want to argue that Flores would never get another hit, then look at Scherzer. I would not have bet on Flores to get a hit in any single AB. Scherzer on the other hand had noteworthy batting stats in 2021.
He was 0 for 59. Yikes
His mean was .000
I am also not saying that Scherzer will never get another hit, but to bet on him not doing it is safer.

Peter_Spaeth · #15 10-15-2021, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I thought they were liberal with calling strikes on check swings in the AL wild card game too. For both teams.

To my eye, often on replays the swing actually extended a little farther than it looked live so you can sort of understand the call. Not this time.

I don't have a problem with sticking with Flores. You go with what brung you. Roberts' faith in Bellinger certainly paid off.

Peter_Spaeth · #16 10-15-2021, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Paul, I more than understand your 0 for 17 Scherzer argument however, a statistician would argue that Flores was nearly certain to get the game winning hit due to regression to the mean. In other words he was overdue.

Scherzer on the other hand had noteworthy batting stats in 2021.
He was 0 for 59. Yikes
His mean was .000

Actually your math is wrong. Each at bat is an independent event. Don't believe me, start betting on teams on losing streaks.

PS your revision is an improvement. You have regressed to your own mean which is a reasonably intelligent post, not a terrible one.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #17 10-15-2021, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Not having Belt available for the series definitely hurt the Giants.

Pretty sure if the Giants had been asked if they could give up Belt if the Dodgers had to give up Muncy and Kershaw they would have jumped at the chance.

I'm a Dodger fan and it was a crap call on the obviously checked swing.

Peter_Spaeth · #18 10-15-2021, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Pretty sure if the Giants had been asked if they could give up Belt if the Dodgers had to give up Muncy and Kershaw they would have jumped at the chance.

I'm a Dodger fan and it was a crap call on the obviously checked swing.

If I am the Giants I want to see Kershaw and his 4 point whatever post season ERA on that mound.

Shoeless Moe · #19 10-15-2021, 05:46 PM

Normally I am not a stats guy, and a always go with the percentages, blah blah blah, lefty righty, righty lefty, etc etc......I go with what feels right in the moment (but with a quick check of all necessary info. just to make sure I ain't missing anything obvious)........well 0 for 17, means he can't hit this pitcher.

He wasn't 3 for 21.......he wasn't 0 for 4........

0 for 17.......that's serious data.

You know how often a horse that is 0 for 17 wins......NEVER.

Same with hitting, if you can't hit a certain guy you can't hit him......just like when you own a pitcher and are like 8 for 12 against him.

But again I had no clue what else was on their bench.....I was going back and forth between Pawn Stars, so not sure if they showed who was on the bench, any stats etc. I looked that up this morning, because I didn't think Flores looked good on the first couple pitches and felt a K was coming, so I was curious how he did lifetime against Max, and sure enough, he can't hit him.

A+ for the job Kapler did with the Giants this season

F - if he had any hitter left on his bench, and being it was only the 9th I'm guessing he did.

Peter_Spaeth · #20 10-15-2021, 06:13 PM

Feels like a small sample size to me but I am no statistician. That's just 4 or so 0-4 games seems to me that could happen to anyone.

Jim65 · #21 10-16-2021, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Do you think that Roberts et al would have has a hissy fit it the umpire had ruled no swing, no strike? I seriously doubt it and it certainly wouldn't be an issue today regardless of who ultimately won the game.

The Giants complained because a bad call went against that ended the game.

If the bases were loaded, and the Ump blew a call on a checked swing on ball 4, you bet your ass that Dodgers throw a fit.

todeen · #22 10-16-2021, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And with the winning run at the plate no less, with two out in the bottom of the ninth. A WTF moment for sure.

You could hear it in Ron Darling's voice immediately that a horrible call was made.

I am almost certain the umpire crew was called by NY office after the game to tell them don't do that in that situation ever again.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

frankbmd · #23 10-16-2021, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim65

The Giants complained because a bad call went against that ended the game.

If the bases were loaded, and the Ump blew a call on a checked swing on ball 4, you bet your ass that Dodgers throw a fit.

Moving the goal posts
The Giants' season was ended, not just the game.

Neither team's season should end in an elimination game due to a blown call.
I'm not playing favorites.

Jim65 · #24 10-16-2021, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Moving the goal posts
The Giants' season was ended, not just the game.

Neither team's season should end in an elimination game due to a blown call.
I'm not playing favorites.

Your point was the Dodgers wouldn't throw a hissy fit if the call went the other way, correct? If the call went the other way, the AB would have continued with a 1-2 count. The Dodgers season wouldn't have ended on that call, so why should the Dodgers complain?

frankbmd · #25 10-16-2021, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim65

Your point was the Dodgers wouldn't throw a hissy fit if the call went the other way, correct? If the call went the other way, the AB would have continued with a 1-2 count. The Dodgers season wouldn't have ended on that call, so why should the Dodgers complain?

That's my point.

However egregious errors by umpires not affecting the outcome of a game or a season often result in histrionic managerial theatrics, less so now than before the advent of video replay. I sort of miss seeing irate managers getting tossed of the game by an umpire. Don't you?