Were the T210's actually a 1910 issue or were they issued in 1911?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Jason

I stand potentially corrected! Very interesting thread. I hope we can attain confirmation either way. If they aren't 1910 issues I'll sell the whole set out of anger lol.

Me too Jason. It doesn't matter to me either way I only brought it up because the newspaper clips indicate that the 1910 distribution date could be incorrect. I think sometimes there's to much emphasis put on what teams the players are depicted on. It isn't uncommon to see players depicted on teams that they played on in the previous year back then.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Me too Jason. It doesn't matter to me either way I only brought it up because the newspaper clips indicate that the 1910 distribution date could be incorrect. I think sometimes there's to much emphasis put on what teams the players are depicted on. It isn't uncommon to see players depicted on teams that they played on in the previous year back then.

It doesn't matter to me either, but please point out where the newspaper clips indicate a 1911 release date. I have not gone back to review the entire thread but I seem to recall that you based your theory on the verb tense of one word in one clipping--the use of "appears" instead of "appeared". Mickey Mantle both appears and appeared in the 1961 Topps set, but the cards were released in the past regardless of my choice of verbiage on that now.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

It doesn't matter to me either, but please point out where the newspaper clips indicate a 1911 release date. I have not gone back to review the entire thread but I seem to recall that you based your theory on the verb tense of one word in one clipping--the use of "appears" instead of "appeared". Mickey Mantle both appears and appeared in the 1961 Topps set, but the cards were released in the past regardless of my choice of verbiage on that now.

I didn't say it was proof Todd but what's the proof that they were released in 1910? The S74's, T51's, T42's, T6's, T206's, T3's, T220's, T218's, and even the H801-7's plus others are all mentioned the the ATC journal but the T210's aren't.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I didn't say it was proof Todd but what's the proof that they were released in 1910? The S74's, T51's, T42's, T6's, T206's, T3's, T220's, T218's, and even the H801-7's plus others are all mentioned the the ATC journal but the T210's aren't.

I just asked where do you see in any of “the newspaper clips” that the 1910 release date could be incorrect. Instead you refer me back to an ATC Journal, and make no argument about the newspaper stories.

In fact, as has been pointed out, the newspapers all make reference to the pictures for the cards being taken in early to mid 1910, that the cards were going to be known soon, and that the cabinets, which were printed after T210 cards, were already on the market “some time ago” in December 1910. How does any of this suggest a 1911 release date?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I just asked where do you see in any of “the newspaper clips” that the 1910 release date could be incorrect. Instead you refer me back to an ATC Journal, and make no argument about the newspaper stories.

In fact, as has been pointed out, the newspapers all make reference to the pictures for the cards being taken in early to mid 1910, that the cards were going to be known soon, and that the cabinets, which were printed after T210 cards, were already on the market “some time ago” in December 1910. How does any of this suggest a 1911 release date?

I already said that I think the newspaper clip suggests they could have been distributed in 1911. I don't see why the sportswriter would be bringing up the fact that he "appears on Old Mill cigarette pictures" the prior year, you disagree and that's fine.

The pictures were taken in early 1910 but they still have to get them to the lithographers who have to make the plates and print them then they have to to be packed and shipped this all had to take months to do. Putting them out before or around the start of a season seems like a better time to start distribution.

[nolemmings]

Pat, I don’t have any problem with you questioning the dates when cards were issued– you can search my posts and see the many times when I have done the same. I just think you have not come close to making the case for 1911. I hope you continue with your research, and would like to know more about the journal entries, especially as relates to S74 and H801-7. Also, is there any mention of either the P2 pins or PX7 disks?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Pat, I don’t have any problem with you questioning the dates when cards were issued– you can search my posts and see the many times when I have done the same. I just think you have not come close to making the case for 1911. I hope you continue with your research, and would like to know more about the journal entries, especially as relates to S74 and H801-7. Also, is there any mention of either the P2 pins or PX7 disks?

I don't see anything on the P2 pins or the PX7 disks. There is a page for Sweet Caporal Flag buttons.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Pat, I don’t have any problem with you questioning the dates when cards were issued– you can search my posts and see the many times when I have done the same. I just think you have not come close to making the case for 1911. I hope you continue with your research, and would like to know more about the journal entries, especially as relates to S74 and H801-7. Also, is there any mention of either the P2 pins or PX7 disks?

Unless I'm missing something the only thing I can find that was used for the 1910 date for the T210's is the teams that the players are depicted on and to me that's not that strong of a case.

In each series the T206 players are depicted on the teams they played on the previous year from when that series was distributed.

Using the print group 2 350 only subjects as an example we know they were distributed in the summer of 1910

ATC Cycle Ledger page.jpg


I just used the A-B subjects to make this chart but with just those few examples you can see they used the teams from the prior year on the cards.

img090.jpg

You can date an earliest release of a card by the players teams but you can only assume how late they were released. From what I've seen it wasn't that uncommon to have cards of players that were on a team the previous year from the actual distribution date.

On Stengel's T210 his team is Maysville they weren't relocated from Shelbyville to Maysville until August 24 1910.