Gun ownership poll

Peter_Spaeth · #1 06-01-2022, 04:48 PM

Oh and Michael, by the way, regarding that "extreme" view of when life begins.

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law that recognizes an embryo or fetus in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."[1]

The law is codified in two sections of the United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), �1841 (18 USC 1841) and Title 10, Chapter 22 (Uniform Code of Military Justice) �919a (Article 119a).

icurnmedic · #2 06-01-2022, 05:55 PM

I like my guns, some are valuable and its a place to invest. Not to mention, I live in a area where the nearest LEO is likely 10-20 minutes away. No one is around to hear any disturbance much less help.

+1 on the security system , I use SimplySafe at Home, and Ring at work. Both work well.

One of several reasons schools are not well guarded, or can't afford to hire the security personnel, is the government is too busy handing out freebies to those who do not contribute. OR maybe they just have not diverted the funds to the appropriate necessities. You decide.

Life begins at conception, but viable life does not. I am Switzerland when it comes to the abortion thing.

Oh and so much talk about semantics of "pro xxxx"
Why not :
pro-choice= "pro-abortion"
Pro-life= Anti-abortion.

A FWIW dictionary.com defines militia :
noun
a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.
a body of citizen soldiers as distinguished from professional soldiers.
all able-bodied males considered by law eligible for military service.
a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government.

Pretty good discord in this thread.
Thomas

BobbyStrawberry · #3 06-01-2022, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

One of several reasons schools are not well guarded, or can't afford to hire the security personnel, is the government is too busy handing out freebies to those who do not contribute. OR maybe they just have not diverted the funds to the appropriate necessities. You decide.

Who are "those who do not contribute" and what are they not contributing?

icurnmedic · #4 06-01-2022, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Who are "those who do not contribute" and what are they not contributing?

If you do not know, there is no reason to discuss.

BobbyStrawberry · #5 06-01-2022, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

If you do not know, there is no reason to discuss.

And we wonder why things are so polarized in America these days. Personally, I've appreciated the discussion on this thread between people with very different viewpoints on these issues.

BCauley · #6 06-01-2022, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

If you do not know, there is no reason to discuss.

That�s essentially just saying you don�t know, or don�t want to answer out loud.

If you believe something, then own it. Quit the childish games.

icurnmedic · #7 06-02-2022, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCauley

That�s essentially just saying you don�t know, or don�t want to answer out loud.

If you believe something, then own it. Quit the childish games.

Wow, wasn't meant to be childish and not really trying to be controversial.
I just assumed anyone with a HS education or half a brain could figure it out.

But lets see who I am describing....
Well I have a neighbor who is 23 years old. Known him his entire life. Granted at this particular house it is "backwoods" and he has lived their again 23 years. He does Not work, therefore does not pay taxes(contribute) receives government $$ including medicaid for his children, 2 of them, (takes).
Not such a big deal if he wasn't also running a Meth house that is very bu$y.

G1911 · #8 06-01-2022, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

I like my guns, some are valuable and its a place to invest.

I don't do this, but Kalashnikov's have outperformed the S&P the last few years. I could sell some of my beater stuff for more than I paid new not that long ago.

AustinMike · #9 06-02-2022, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Oh and Michael, by the way, regarding that "extreme" view of when life begins.

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law that recognizes an embryo or fetus in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."[1]

The law is codified in two sections of the United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), §1841 (18 USC 1841) and Title 10, Chapter 22 (Uniform Code of Military Justice) §919a (Article 119a).

So then why isn't a death certificate issued for each and every miscarriage? Only 7 states and 3 American territories require reporting the death of "(a)ll products of human conception." Twenty-five states require reporting the death if the gestation period is 20 weeks or greater. Twelve states and one territory require reporting the death is the gestation period is 20 weeks or greater and the birth weight is 350 grams or more. You can see the reporting requirements for all the states and territories here:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

Furthermore, we all know laws are fluid. They change depending upon who has the power to craft and pass the laws. So quoting a law, even though it may be current law of the land, means nothing in the context of this discussion. Otherwise, this whole discussion would be moot, no?

AustinMike · #10 06-03-2022, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Oh and Michael, by the way, regarding that "extreme" view of when life begins.

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law that recognizes an embryo or fetus in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."[1]

The law is codified in two sections of the United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), �1841 (18 USC 1841) and Title 10, Chapter 22 (Uniform Code of Military Justice) �919a (Article 119a).

Peter, I've finally had a chance to look at the law you cited and I noticed this, which you omitted:

��(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit the
prosecution�
��(1) of any person for conduct relating to an abortion for
which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person authorized by law to act on her behalf, has been obtained or for
which such consent is implied by law;
��(2) of any person for any medical treatment of the pregnant
woman or her unborn child; or
��(3) of any woman with respect to her unborn child."

So, I'm confused. A fetus is a human being and you can be prosecuted for murder if you cause the death of the unborn fetus. Because the fetus is a human being. But, you can't be prosecuted for murder if it is done during an abortion. Seems like the fetus is a human being worthy of protection except when it's not.

I see it also applies under limited circumstances. From Wiki: "The law applies only to certain offenses over which the United States government has jurisdiction, including certain crimes committed on federal properties, against certain federal officials and employees, and by members of the military. In addition, it covers certain crimes that are defined by statute as federal offenses wherever they occur, no matter who commits them, such as certain crimes of terrorism." Again, it seems like the fetus is a human being worthy of protection except when it's not.

I guess kudos to the "pro-lifers" who wrote that and got it passed. Now they can claim that a fetus is codified by law to be a human being ... except when it's not.

Now to be clear, I understand the reasoning behind the law. And I agree with that reasoning. If a pregnant woman intends to carry the fetus to term, then yes, her unborn fetus was "murdered" and the perpetrator should be punished. I can see where she may think of it as a human being and it should be protected.

But the law also recognizes, without actually saying it, that a pregnant woman who does not want to carry the fetus to term does not think of the fetus as a human being and should not be punished. At least for now.

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