1962 Salada Coins

[Nokegchris]

I have a question perhaps someone can answer. I understand the 180 vs 200 backs and how they came about. My question is for the coins 1 - 180 is the 180 or 200 back more rare? I put together a set off eBay and at the end of the day only ended up with 5 coins that were 180 backs. While some people list the back type on the listing .... there does not seem to be a price difference.... but If I only randomly got 5 180 backs out of 264 purchased it would seem to indicate the 180's are rarer. It looks like both versions of many of the variations were produced with both backs which is interesting. For example I have a Zimmer Cub and Met variation both with 200 backs .... so even when they added the expansion teams and changed the backs to declare the new 200 total they continued to make the Cub version with the new 200 back even though they added the Met version with the 200 back. Given the nature of collecting one would think both versions of the first 180 coins would be listed and the lower "print version" would have a premium attached. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Anyone have info on this??

[Cliff Bowman]

The 180 backs are definitely rarer than the 200 backs, there is no disputing that. I remember years ago I saw a Houston player with a 180 back on eBay which should technically be impossible, either they used a leftover 180 back at the factory or someone switched the player disc into the 180 back coin later on, it was probably the former.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Nokegchris

I have a question perhaps someone can answer. I understand the 180 vs 200 backs and how they came about. My question is for the coins 1 - 180 is the 180 or 200 back more rare? I put together a set off eBay and at the end of the day only ended up with 5 coins that were 180 backs. While some people list the back type on the listing .... there does not seem to be a price difference.... but If I only randomly got 5 180 backs out of 264 purchased it would seem to indicate the 180's are rarer. It looks like both versions of many of the variations were produced with both backs which is interesting. For example I have a Zimmer Cub and Met variation both with 200 backs .... so even when they added the expansion teams and changed the backs to declare the new 200 total they continued to make the Cub version with the new 200 back even though they added the Met version with the 200 back. Given the nature of collecting one would think both versions of the first 180 coins would be listed and the lower "print version" would have a premium attached. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Anyone have info on this??

Chris:

As Cliff said the 180 shells are most definitely rarer than the 200 shells. It all has to do with the timing of when Salada converted over from the 180's to the 200 shells. I MAY have that info in my company records which I can not access currently. However, there are many more 200 backs that were produced/issued.

As for your Zimmer question above, again it is a matter of timing, as well as you have to remember the coins were printed someplace and the plastic shells somewhere else. It is moat likely that they could have had for example 5000 sheets printed with the Zimmer, Hodges Dodgers, Neal Dodgers etc. when they first got in the "new" 200 shells. So they would have just inserted the coins from these "old" 5000 sheets into the new 200 back shells once they ran out of the 180 back shells.

The Zimmer with the Cubs was issued first in the 180 shell, then at some point it was decided to go to the 200 back. Most likely once the Mets and Colts expansion teams were announced, but before any artwork could be changed from the Cubs to the Mets as they later did. In my eyes because of this the Cubs Zimmer is much tougher to find than the Mets for the simple reason the Mets coin was in production for a longer period of time. And again as Cliff noted you won't find a Zimmer Mets in a 180 shell unless someone switched them out.

As I think I mentioned in my earlier post I have internal records saying to drop for example Ashburn for Bob Will. This had a date on it say Feb 14, 1962. A new batch of printing of the coins could have been ordered 3/1 with the Ashburn being dropped and Will added along with the the other changes. These dates are just pulled out of the air by me.

Hope this convoluted information makes sense to you. Short answer 180 back coins are rarer in number, but most people collecting the set do not care which back their coins have.

Here are photos of an original sheet and an original sheet with the 21 changes. The Colts and Mets were printed on their own sheets.

Just two mentions for a quick reference to tell the difference between the two sheets. Bottom row shows the Giants. On the first sheet fourth in from the left you see Harvey Kueen. and the row above Cardinals first on left is Cunningham. On the second sheet these two have been replaced by Pagan and Minoso respectively. You should be able to see the other changes on the two sheets

[Nokegchris]

Great info and thanks so much for the response!! Yeah I can see on the two sheets the Zimmer is gone on the second sheet. I wonder how tough it would be to build a set of 180 backs on the first 180 coins. I assume that many of the rare variations were on the first printing but also did not exist throughout the first printing (as you indicated they occurred during a test/proof run). Best to you and thanks again!!

[Nokegchris]

So I'm working on building a 180 back set ..... continuing on with the conversation above. Interestingly I found both versions of the Early Wynn coin with a 180 back. Do you think this was switched or produced that way? Also I assume all the variations not caused by the expansion draft were only produced with one back style .... like the red button vs white button, the name variation, the Oriole vs Orioles etc .... or do you think some were produced with both backs?? Also are these variations also found in the Canadian coins??? Kind of an interesting group of coins with not a lot of easily available info. I guess with "oddball" sets it runs under the radar!!!

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Nokegchris

So I'm working on building a 180 back set ..... continuing on with the conversation above. Interestingly I found both versions of the Early Wynn coin with a 180 back. Do you think this was switched or produced that way? Also I assume all the variations not caused by the expansion draft were only produced with one back style .... like the red button vs white button, the name variation, the Oriole vs Orioles etc .... or do you think some were produced with both backs?? Also are these variations also found in the Canadian coins??? Kind of an interesting group of coins with not a lot of easily available info. I guess with "oddball" sets it runs under the radar!!!

I'm pretty sure the 1962 Sherriff Canadian issue has zero variations, but anyone could put any player disc into any empty 1962 Sherriff coin and make their own 'variation'.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Nokegchris

So I'm working on building a 180 back set ..... continuing on with the conversation above. Interestingly I found both versions of the Early Wynn coin with a 180 back. Do you think this was switched or produced that way? Also I assume all the variations not caused by the expansion draft were only produced with one back style .... like the red button vs white button, the name variation, the Oriole vs Orioles etc .... or do you think some were produced with both backs?? Also are these variations also found in the Canadian coins??? Kind of an interesting group of coins with not a lot of easily available info. I guess with "oddball" sets it runs under the radar!!!

The original 21 dropped coins were available in both 180 and 200 backs. As you noted the 21 coins that took their place only come in 200 backs.

The rare coins Williams name on right, Brandt OrioleS, Bailey C level with ear and others that are all part of the early test printing only come in 180 backs.

As Cliff noted there are no variations in the Shirriff set and you will find none of the dropped 21 coins in that set.

The red buttons/white buttons gets a little confusing. The early test prints with 180 backs of those where there are variations have red buttons only. But you can find later printings of red and white buttons in 200 backs.

However the 180 back set has all red buttons and the Shirriff set has all white buttons.

Got it?

[Nokegchris]

Great info and thanks so much!!!
What do you think about the two different poses of Early Wynn coins I got both with the 180 back. Produced that way or switched by someone at some point???

[toppcat]

I will add that you can mix and match the paper inserts in shells at will.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Nokegchris

Great info and thanks so much!!!
What do you think about the two different poses of Early Wynn coins I got both with the 180 back. Produced that way or switched by someone at some point???

The Wynn with hands over his head was produced first as you can see in the sheet above with the dropped 21 coins. And the Wynn portrait is on the later sheet.

That being said since we don't know when Salada switched over from the hands over head to the portrait I guess it is possible that both Wynn could have been issued in 180 shells. However if the switch came when Salada was still producing 180 shells you would expect the hands over the head to be much scarcer than the portrait. I have not found that to be the case.

The flip side is can you find both versions in 200 shells. I believe you can which leads me to think the portrait you have in a 180 shell was most likely "flipped" as Dave notes above