Photo Restoration question

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by EddieP

The Slug in the back is all you need as proof it is a “Type 1” photo.

There are some wire photos with attached slugs. It's quite rare but I've seen it. Easy to spot them though as it says right on the slip. And the quality isn't great as you'd expect.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

There are some wire photos with attached slugs. It's quite rare but I've seen it. Easy to spot them though as it says right on the slip. And the quality isn't great as you'd expect.

A wire photo by definition is what PSA/BGS call a “Type 3” photo.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by EddieP

A wire photo by definition is what PSA/BGS call a “Type 3” photo.

I do not go by those 'types' however, this is a press photo that is highly unlikely a wire photo. All wire photos are, by definition press photos. Not all press photos are wire photos. A wire photo in many cases has the caption imbedded in the photo. Press photos that have original period caption sheets attached, even when it is completely attached to the back rather than folded over the front, are usually not wire photos. The recipient of the photo, in theory, could create or print the caption sheet and attached it to the photo, but that is not common.

The one issue that no one has mentioned is that some previous owner had this framed. You can see remnants of linen mounting tape along the edges. That bothers me more than the missing corner. If I were to do anything with this photo I would remove that first

I would suspect that if you "restore" the photo by adding to it it is no longer a 'type 1' photo, but merely authentic. Another alternative is to have a hi-res scan (1200 dpi or larger) and someone with advanced photoshop skills can fill in the corner by cloning the background from the upper right side and flipping it. You could then make a nice print.

Like one other poster, I have also been a photographer for over 40 years. I have been a photography collector almost as long. I have photos in all different conditions; missing corners, creases, tears and other issues. At most I will clean the front of the photo with PEC-12 or Isopropyl alcohol and repair any rips or tears with archival document repair tape, which is essentially tissue paper, from the back. If I was concerned about the acidity of the caption sheet I would use newspaper deacidification spray sold by one of the archival supply companies like University Products or Archival Methods.

Some of my own photography is is this thread:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=280592

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by Michael B

I do not go by those 'types' however, this is a press photo that is highly unlikely a wire photo. All wire photos are, by definition press photos. Not all press photos are wire photos. A wire photo in many cases has the caption imbedded in the photo. Press photos that have original period caption sheets attached, even when it is completely attached to the back rather than folded over the front, are usually not wire photos. The recipient of the photo, in theory, could create or print the caption sheet and attached it to the photo, but that is not common.

The one issue that no one has mentioned is that some previous owner had this framed. You can see remnants of linen mounting tape along the edges. That bothers me more than the missing corner. If I were to do anything with this photo I would remove that first

I would suspect that if you "restore" the photo by adding to it it is no longer a 'type 1' photo, but merely authentic. Another alternative is to have a hi-res scan (1200 dpi or larger) and someone with advanced photoshop skills can fill in the corner by cloning the background from the upper right side and flipping it. You could then make a nice print.

Like one other poster, I have also been a photographer for over 40 years. I have been a photography collector almost as long. I have photos in all different conditions; missing corners, creases, tears and other issues. At most I will clean the front of the photo with PEC-12 or Isopropyl alcohol and repair any rips or tears with archival document repair tape, which is essentially tissue paper, from the back. If I was concerned about the acidity of the caption sheet I would use newspaper deacidification spray sold by one of the archival supply companies like University Products or Archival Methods.

Some of my own photography is is this thread:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=280592

We’re not talking about the Ruth photo. A wire photo was a type of press photo in which the original photo ( AKA vintage Original or Type 1) was transmitted over a “wire” ( similar to fax machines) to various newspapers across the country. Thus “wire” photos ( or Vintage Copies) are copies of the original. The quality of the picture is similar to fax machine or Xerox copy. In PSA/ BGS terminology they are “ Type 3” .

Wire photos tend to have the captions typed under the white border of the photo.

So no, cleaning, restoring etc will not affect the “ Type” of the photo.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“At most I will clean the front of the photo with PEC-12 or Isopropyl alcohol and repair any rips or tears with archival document repair tape, which is essentially tissue paper, from the back. If I was concerned about the acidity of the caption sheet I would use newspaper deacidification spray sold by one of the archival supply companies like University Products or Archival Methods.”

So how’s this any different from what a Card Cleaning Company would do?

[Kawika]

Very interesting and informative thread. If I were the OP I'd be torn as to how to proceed but would probably opt for restoration because I think the final outcome would be worlds more aesthetic.

A somewhat related tale . . . Back around fifteen years or so a group of Horner cabinets of Boston players was up at auction. There was a Speaker purchased by a member here which was pristine and a delight to behold. Also for sale was a timeworn photo of Smoky Joe Wood with a healthy dogbite in the northeast corner. Being the sort of fellow who tends toward obsessive-compulsiveness I chose to lay off this otherwise beautiful portrait of one of my favorite deadballers. I regretted my decision for years so I did the next best thing: I commissioned Graig Kreindler to paint it. I was jazzed when the cab showed up again at auction. This time I went scorched earth mode and won it. In the interim I have gotten quite used to to the dogbite and will leave any restoration magic to the next owner.

[prewarsports]

One thing to consider is that PSA will usually not encapsulate photos with restoration. If you break it out and have restoration done to it, they will honor the fact that it is a Type 1 but will likely not put it back in a slab. Not sure why, but that is my understanding. I have a 1916 Ruth photo that is clearly authentic but restored much in the way yours would be if you had the work done, and they will not even give it a Type 1 letter because the image had gelatin added to the surface after the restoration work was done. Even with before and after pictures and an analysis of the paper by a lab, they will not do it. I even asked if they could put "restored" on the letter and they said no. Just something to consider.

[commishbob]

Ok, I did this with some random online site in a couple of minutes so don't laugh too hard at my non-skills but here's a (very) rough idea of what it could look like matted

png (1).jpg

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by EddieP

We’re not talking about the Ruth photo. A wire photo was a type of press photo in which the original photo ( AKA vintage Original or Type 1) was transmitted over a “wire” ( similar to fax machines) to various newspapers across the country. Thus “wire” photos ( or Vintage Copies) are copies of the original. The quality of the picture is similar to fax machine or Xerox copy. In PSA/ BGS terminology they are “ Type 3” .

Wire photos tend to have the captions typed under the white border of the photo.

So no, cleaning, restoring etc will not affect the “ Type” of the photo.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“At most I will clean the front of the photo with PEC-12 or Isopropyl alcohol and repair any rips or tears with archival document repair tape, which is essentially tissue paper, from the back. If I was concerned about the acidity of the caption sheet I would use newspaper deacidification spray sold by one of the archival supply companies like University Products or Archival Methods.”

So how’s this any different from what a Card Cleaning Company would do?

NSS! After stating that I collect photos and have for over 35 years you try photosplaining? I clearly state the usual difference between regular press photos and wire photos. A wire photo in many cases has the caption imbedded in the photo. Press photos that have original period caption sheets attached, even when it is completely attached to the back rather than folded over the front, are usually not wire photos.

If you think that using PEC-12 or Isopropyl alcohol on the front of a glossy photo is similar to what a card cleaning company does you do not understand photographs. Using them is similar to washing a car. It has no affect on the emulsion (image) as it is removing what is on top of the gloss not altering it at all. A silver halide print on glossy paper can be altered during the darkroom process using sepia tone or dye toner. I have a lot of darkroom experience and have printed fibre and glossy paper. About the only time you would use anything on top of a glossy print is when you use spotting dye to cover up scratches on the negative that cannot be removed during the printing. Much easier these days with scanning and adobe photoshop.

As for archival repair tape. Why not? If the corner of a photo is about to fall off or there is a tear it helps preserve it. Unless you are going for a full restoration the creases the breaks in the emulsion will still be visible,