10 best postwar players who haven't made the Hall

[jsfriedm]

I actually don't think Kent is one of 6 or 7 best offensive second basemen. Here's 7 - who are you putting him ahead of?

Rogers Hornsby
Eddie Collins
Nap Lajoie
Charlie Gehringer
Jackie Robinson
Joe Morgan
Roberto Alomar (offensive WAR 70.8 to 60.1 for Kent)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

I actually don't think Kent is one of 6 or 7 best offensive second basemen. Here's 7 - who are you putting him ahead of?

Rogers Hornsby
Eddie Collins
Nap Lajoie
Charlie Gehringer
Jackie Robinson
Joe Morgan
Roberto Alomar (offensive WAR 70.8 to 60.1 for Kent)

Rod Carew as well, no?

[jsfriedm]

Forgot him, but yes. I also think there are others that might be debatable: Biggio, Sandberg, possibly even Cano (yes, PEDS...)

[packs]

Kent is never going to get in. He was pretty bad actually until he got to the Giants. His best season with the Mets came with a 111 OPS and he didn't leave the Mets until he was 28 years old, so it's not like he was just settling in.

I don't think people are wrong to speculate about his time on the Giants, when he was suddenly good at 30 years old.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

I actually don't think Kent is one of 6 or 7 best offensive second basemen. Here's 7 - who are you putting him ahead of?

Rogers Hornsby
Eddie Collins
Nap Lajoie
Charlie Gehringer
Jackie Robinson
Joe Morgan
Roberto Alomar (offensive WAR 70.8 to 60.1 for Kent)

Cano and Grich may be ahead of Kent as well.

OPS+ for 2nd Basemen:
1) Rogers Hornsby 175
2) Lajoie 150
3) Eddie Collins 142
4) Jackie Robinson 133
5) Joe Morgan 132
6) Gehringer/Bobby Grich 125
8) Robinson Cano 124
9) Jeff Kent 123
10 Joe Gordon 120
11) Lou Whitaker and Chace Utley 117
13) Roberto Alomar 116
14) Ryne Sandberg 114
15) Dustin Pedroia 113
16) Biggio 112

I think Carew played more games at 1B than 2B so it is hard to count him.

[clydepepper]

I agree with several of those players already mentioned, but I will bring up a real jerk, but an outstanding hitter that nobody has mentioned:


Albert Belle.

Even though he was caught with a corked bat, I don't think he was an habitual cheater- like the other big stat guys who should always be on the outside, looking in.

.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

I actually don't think Kent is one of 6 or 7 best offensive second basemen. Here's 7 - who are you putting him ahead of?

Rogers Hornsby
Eddie Collins
Nap Lajoie
Charlie Gehringer
Jackie Robinson
Joe Morgan
Roberto Alomar (offensive WAR 70.8 to 60.1 for Kent)

Hornsby
Collins
Lajoie
Gehringer
Morgan

Jackie is close and would probably pass if he’d had a couple more years. I note we don’t want to use oWar for him.

Rod Carew played more games at 1B than 2B. If we count him as a 2B and credit his half plus career at first as playing 2B, I would put him ahead to, but that criteria doesn’t make much sense.

Cano, Alomar, Biggio are close. Less impressive peaks and more counting seasons. I definitely deduct a bit from Cano for clearly cheating to reach his stats.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by G1911

Hornsby
Collins
Lajoie
Gehringer
Morgan

Jackie is close and would probably pass if he’d had a couple more years. I note we don’t want to use oWar for him.

Rod Carew played more games at 1B than 2B. If we count him as a 2B and credit his half plus career at first as playing 2B, I would put him ahead to, but that criteria doesn’t make much sense.

Cano, Alomar, Biggio are close. Less impressive peaks and more counting seasons. I definitely deduct a bit from Cano for clearly cheating to reach his stats.

Bobby Grich had a higher OPS+ and oWAR than Kent, and was a much better fielder.

[Baseballcrazy62]

Bill Freehan: 11x All-Star/World Series Champ/ 5x Gold Glove winner.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Baseballcrazy62

Bill Freehan: 11x All-Star/World Series Champ/ 5x Gold Glove winner.

I've been of two minds on Freehan and have yet to add him to my RC collection unlike nearly everyone discussed here although I still don't have Blue. On the one hand, one could point to the above and say well yeah he's deserving. On the other hand, one could say he was just the best AL catcher in a weak period for catchers. But you've convinced me.

[JollyElm]

Jesus Christ with the ridiculous 'advanced' stats!!!! We all saw Jeff Kent play every day. If the theoretical WAR stat is such an important barometer, why didn't any of the other second baseman playing when he did put up the numbers Kent did??? You would rather have those guys at second?? Jeff Kent is the all-time HR and RBI leader for second basemen. ALL TIME!!!!!! The goal in a baseball game is to score runs, and no one from the second base position did it better than him. He was a monster on offense.

1,518 RBIs and 377 long balls from a second baseman?? That doesn't make him Cooperstown worthy???? He also hit the 100 RBI mark eight different times, was an All Star 5 times and won an MVP Award (and would've probably had more if his juicing a-hole of a teammate didn't keep stealing them). And a career .290 average ain't too shabby.

What in high heck else do you want from your second base position??????

This is just beyond frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cgjackson222]

I think there is a strong HOF case for Kent. But I don't know if he is the 6th or 7th best 2nd baseman of all time. There are a bunch of great 2nd basemen. He wasn't very good for the first 7 or the last 4 years of his career.