Cards still being outed on Blowout -- PSA 9 Monte Irvin in the recent ML

[steve B]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Pulling this out probably amounts to a non-sequitur at this point, but it caught my attention because I don't think I've ever seen KCC discussed on N54 before.

I would agree with you that what he does (at least on vintage) stops short of true card doctoring. If soaking a T206 is not a sin, then neither is using moisture / humidity to lift dents out of cards or to perk up pressed-down corners from screw cases. In the right set of circumstances in a musty attic or basement, the same thing could happen naturally. I know that his "spray" has drawn criticism too, but whatever it's ingredients - it's a quick drying formula that leaves nothing on the surface. I ordered a small bottle just to play with it, and had moderate success lessening the appearance of (not totally removing) light wrinkles and creases on postwar vintage on some test cards in my own PC. As I'm not setting out to do this for a living or even make it part of my hobby, (and his recommended practices if you do it on a lot of cards can be quite time consuming) I kind of quit after that.

Kurt does also have a "polish" for shiny ultramodern cards that seems to get out light scratches and imperfections. His videos are interesting to watch to say the least - and even though the polish to me seems to be a bit more in the vein of doctoring, I don't think he's ever had anything rejected by PSA or SGC. He's done everything from modern 1/1's to '52 Mantles it seems with good results.

This is interesting to me just because of the upfront, no secrets nature of it and the way Kurt runs his YouTube channel. Given recent events and indeed the original subject of this thread - it doesn't seem like he will run out of business anytime soon.

To me lifting out dents or wrinkles is altering. I have doubts that the cardstock stays undented once it becomes dry again.

If the stuff wasn't so expensive, I'd say the spray sounds a lot like watermark detector fluid. But one little 3.4 oz bottle is about $20-25.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

To me lifting out dents or wrinkles is altering. I have doubts that the cardstock stays undented once it becomes dry again.

If the stuff wasn't so expensive, I'd say the spray sounds a lot like watermark detector fluid. But one little 3.4 oz bottle is about $20-25.

I once bought a PSA 8 1950s card with an obvious crease. PSA bought it back. I assume it had been taken out and came back, there was no way to have missed it.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I once bought a PSA 8 1950s card with an obvious crease. PSA bought it back. I assume it had been taken out and came back, there was no way to have missed it.

I think this is where claim that creases can return comes from. People finding creases in high grade slabs and assuming there's no way it would have been missed if it was there during grading. This assumption places more faith in the competency of TPGs than I have though.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I think this is where claim that creases can return comes from. People finding creases in high grade slabs and assuming there's no way it would have been missed if it was there during grading. This assumption places more faith in the competency of TPGs than I have though.

This was blatant.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by steve B

To me lifting out dents or wrinkles is altering.

Perfectly valid opinion. And I am not sure the extent to which certain dents or creases stay removed. Is it still altering if you cannot detect it a month or a year later? Maybe. But if unable to be detected, the hobby obviously isn't going to consider it altered permanently.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

To me lifting out dents or wrinkles is altering. I have doubts that the cardstock stays undented once it becomes dry again.

If the stuff wasn't so expensive, I'd say the spray sounds a lot like watermark detector fluid. But one little 3.4 oz bottle is about $20-25.

I got some old beater Batman cards given to me 20+ years ago. Someone had them in the basement and they stunk. I soaked them and it got rid of the smell and most of the wrinkles disappeared and the major creases turned into minor wrinkles.

I still have them someplace. I noticed a few years ago when I ran across them the creases and wrinkles have come back but not as bad as they were to begin with. For many years they looked really nice so in my case they did come back but it took several years before they started to reappear.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by steve B

To me lifting out dents or wrinkles is altering. I have doubts that the cardstock stays undented once it becomes dry again.

If the stuff wasn't so expensive, I'd say the spray sounds a lot like watermark detector fluid. But one little 3.4 oz bottle is about $20-25.

It depends on the extent of the indent and how you "fix" it. If the paper fibers were broken or torn, then you're not going to unbreak them. But most card stocks are like sponges. If it's dry, it's rigid, if it's moist, it's malleable. If you take a warped or dented sponge and you get it wet, it returns to its original shape. You could say it has a memory of sorts. Most card stock is the same. The issues arise when people don't know what they're doing and they try to "fix" indents by just smashing the hell out of a card. All they're doing is damaging the paper fibers. This can often be detected.

But if you simply toss a card into a humidor, you're not going to damage it at all, and you can often get the card to "remember" its original form, just like a sponge.

Here's an example: I put my 61 Koufax into a humidor and these surface indents disappeared. No smashing needed. Just some moisture was all it took. If this is considered "doctoring", then so is shipping a card from Vegas to New Orleans.

[Yoda]

OCD=Occupational Card Doctor.