Best players ever with no black ink

G1911 · #1 07-26-2024, 11:07 AM

Ray Schalk has no black ink either, very few HOFers in that category but as a defense centered catcher hardly surprising.

More interestingly to me, fellow catcher Rick Ferrell has no black ink AND 0 grey ink (https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...erreri01.shtml). While rightfully counted as an undeserving hall of fame selection, Ferrell was a fine ball player who made 8 all-star games. Is there anyone better who also posts 0 grey ink for a career?

D. Bergin · #2 07-26-2024, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Ray Schalk has no black ink either, very few HOFers in that category but as a defense centered catcher hardly surprising.

More interestingly to me, fellow catcher Rick Ferrell has no black ink AND 0 grey ink (https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...erreri01.shtml). While rightfully counted as an undeserving hall of fame selection, Ferrell was a fine ball player who made 8 all-star games. Is there anyone better who also posts 0 grey ink for a career?

Well, another catcher. You could argue Jim Sundberg was better (or at least more valuable) using analytics. No Grey ink.

Bob Boone, also no grey ink, though modern analytics seems to like Sundberg much more then Boone, Boone got much more support during his HOF voting years.

That said, Ferrell appears much better offensively than both (on paper anyways, maybe not so much comparing eras), and who knows how accurate DWar can possibly being going that far back, and relying solely on antiquated box scores of the time.

I don't begrudge ANY catcher getting into the HOF. Toughest and most grueling non-pitcher position on the field by a longshot IMO. They should only be compared to other catchers...full stop.

G1911 · #3 07-26-2024, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Well, another catcher. You could argue Jim Sundberg was better (or at least more valuable) using analytics. No Grey ink.

Bob Boone, also no grey ink, though modern analytics seems to like Sundberg much more then Boone, Boone got much more support during his HOF voting years.

That said, Ferrell appears much better offensively than both (on paper anyways, maybe not so much comparing eras), and who knows how accurate DWar can possibly being going that far back, and relying solely on antiquated box scores of the time.

I don't begrudge ANY catcher getting into the HOF. Toughest and most grueling non-pitcher position on the field by a longshot IMO. They should only be compared to other catchers...full stop.

I think of Sundberg and Boone as being pretty similar, surprised to see such a large % gap in their WAR. dWAR I have 0 faith in for a number of reasons, it seems to especially undervalue catchers in general, so perhaps it should not be surprising.

I'm fine with adding more catchers, it's a tough position and I wouldn't expect superstar offense for a top catcher, but Rick Ferrell was a bit of a stretch when compared to those catchers who are in and those who are out. I probably wouldn't vote for him, but in an odd way the bottom tier of the HOF becomes very underrated. They became so known as 'the guys who shouldn't have a plaque' that that perception comes to overwhelm that pretty much all of them were still all-star excellent players.

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