Does Lance Parrish deserve to be in the HOF?

steve B · #1 11-15-2024, 11:54 AM

One of those guys who are almost there.

Playing for mostly smaller market teams doesn't help. That shouldn't matter but it does.

And when he played was interesting. Pretty much contemporary with Fisk. Same with Bench for his first few years. And Gary Carter.
And of the years I spot checked, there were other guys having a better year, plus a few that came and went with similar performance.

The last 3 years of bouncing around and backup level stats and playing time couldn't help.

D. Bergin · #2 11-15-2024, 12:30 PM

His OBP really killed him from compiling more WAR throughout his career.

I completely forgot how many guys he used to throw out.

I�m all for more catcher�s getting in the Hall though. I think they should be judged on a completely different skill set than other position players.

I think it�s odd how few catchers are in the HOF, when you consider an everyday catcher is involved in literally every pitch and play throughout the course of a game when his team is on the field.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 11-15-2024, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

His OBP really killed him from compiling more WAR throughout his career.

I completely forgot how many guys he used to throw out.

I�m all for more catcher�s getting in the Hall though. I think they should be judged on a completely different skill set than other position players.

I think it�s odd how few catchers are in the HOF, when you consider an everyday catcher is involved in literally every pitch and play throughout the course of a game when his team is on the field.

Posey and Molina should get in which would rectify that a bit.

packs · #4 11-15-2024, 01:15 PM

I wonder what will happen when Salvador Perez comes up for voting. He's similar to Parrish and is ranked near him on BR (26 for Parrish and 32 for Perez). Big power guy who isn't helped at all by OPS+ or WAR. Might have more of a resume than Parrish though with his World Series MVP and his monster 48 homer season.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 11-15-2024, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I wonder what will happen when Salvador Perez comes up for voting. He's similar to Parrish and is ranked near him on BR (26 for Parrish and 32 for Perez). Big power guy who isn't helped at all by OPS+ or WAR. Might have more of a resume than Parrish though with his World Series MVP and his monster 48 homer season.

How do you explain that season? It's insane, almost a 1961 Norm Cash or a 1990 Brady Anderson.

todeen · #6 11-15-2024, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How do you explain that season? It's insane, almost a 1961 Norm Cash or a 1990 Brady Anderson.

2001 Luis Gonzalez with 57 HR. His most famous hit is a bloop line drive that would have been caught by Derek Jeter if they hadn't been playing in to prevent the run.

packs · #7 11-15-2024, 02:22 PM

I don't know. He missed all of 2019 and then only played 37 games in the short 2020 season. Maybe all that time off.

todeen · #8 11-15-2024, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I think it�s odd how few catchers are in the HOF, when you consider an everyday catcher is involved in literally every pitch and play throughout the course of a game when his team is on the field.

I'm completely with you about judging catchers on a different set of criteria. JT Realmuto deserves consideration among modern catchers. His productivity has helped the Phillies compete offensively and defensively. Here's a list...
https://baseballegg.com/all-time-pla...s-of-all-time/

Realmuto #23 slots in between Parrish #24 and Piazza #22 on this list of best catchers of all time, and ranks higher than Salvador Perez #27. HOF'er Ernie Lombardi #33 sits below him, but he was helped by two batting titles and back to back WS appearances. Ahead of Perez and Realmuto on the list are Posey #8, Posada #14, Molina #15, Jason Kendall #17.

This same argument will eventually come up in 15 years about pitchers from 2015 - present. It is very doubtful we will see 200 wins from this group of pitchers, they will have pitiful Innings Pitched numbers, but monster strikeouts and WHIP.

rats60 · #9 11-15-2024, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todeen

I'm completely with you about judging catchers on a different set of criteria. JT Realmuto deserves consideration among modern catchers. His productivity has helped the Phillies compete offensively and defensively. Here's a list...
https://baseballegg.com/all-time-pla...s-of-all-time/

Realmuto #23 slots in between Parrish #24 and Piazza #22 on this list of best catchers of all time, and ranks higher than Salvador Perez #27. HOF'er Ernie Lombardi #33 sits below him, but he was helped by two batting titles and back to back WS appearances. Ahead of Perez and Realmuto on the list are Posey #8, Posada #14, Molina #15, Jason Kendall #17.

This same argument will eventually come up in 15 years about pitchers from 2015 - present. It is very doubtful we will see 200 wins from this group of pitchers, they will have pitiful Innings Pitched numbers, but monster strikeouts and WHIP.

Mickey Cochrane at #19 and Roy Campanella at #20? That list can't be real.

Mark17 · #10 11-15-2024, 02:40 PM

Actually, maybe he does. I like gold gloves + good offensive numbers and Parrish has both.

jingram058 · #11 11-15-2024, 02:52 PM

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I don't know. I'm just tired of what I perceive to be good but not great players going in, and so many what I consider to be great, again, my perception, not going in. I would really like to see some of the guys I collect, who after reading about them, or that I actually remember being discussed as great from the days in which I followed baseball go in. I guess that's just asking too much, realistically. That's why I collect my own Hall of Fame.

Peter_Spaeth · #12 11-15-2024, 03:21 PM

Gene Tenace ranks higher by JAWS than any of the catchers under discussion here, I believe. He feels to me like the Bobby Grich of catchers -- high metrics, but most would not think of him as even close to great.

todeen · #13 11-15-2024, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingram058

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I don't know. I'm just tired of what I perceive to be good but not great players going in, and so many what I consider to be great, again, my perception, not going in. I would really like to see some of the guys I collect, who after reading about them, or that I actually remember being discussed as great from the days in which I followed baseball go in. I guess that's just asking too much, realistically. That's why I collect my own Hall of Fame.

I didn't see Parrish play. But I think my question is: would Parrish be considered Baines, and a joke to the HOF, or would he be more like Ted Simmons, and considered an honor a long time coming?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

Mickey Cochrane at #19 and Roy Campanella at #20? That list can't be real.

Looking at the list, he is looking at three different measures of WAR: 7 yrs, 5 yrs, and 3 years. Looking at Cochrane and Campanella compared to the top catchers (Bench, Carter, Fisk, Ivan Rodriguez, Yogi), it's noticeable that Cochrane and Campanella have something that creates that separation. Usually when I look at lists like this, the cream of the crop are noticeably separated, like a bell curve. You have those few anomalies at the top and bottom, and then a huge chunk in between. The in-between players are the ones you get to argue about. Of Cochrane, Campanella, Hartnett and Piazza....as you question....I'm not sure how they are passed by Jason Kendall.

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