Who are the most "over-valued" players

[paul]

Isn't Thurman Munson a bit overrated by card collectors? I'm someone who thinks he probably belongs in the Hall of Fame, but his card values seem to equate to the upper echelon of the Hall of Fame. And I don't think he belongs there.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by paul

Isn't Thurman Munson a bit overrated by card collectors? I'm someone who thinks he probably belongs in the Hall of Fame, but his card values seem to equate to the upper echelon of the Hall of Fame. And I don't think he belongs there.

Agreed. Munson’s tragic death was horrible and in many ways elevated him to a status above where he belongs. See the same thing of course with singers and other entertainers.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Agreed. Munson’s tragic death was horrible and in many ways elevated him to a status above where he belongs. See the same thing of course with singers and other entertainers.

I respectfully disagree. His value is where it should be. I don't believe he was showing signs of decline, and had he played a couple of more years there would be no doubt of his HoF eligibility. The Dodgers would have lost the 1981 Series. He probably would have managed. Just my opinion here; I don't have WAR or any other stats to try to prove a point.

[jchcollins]

As a proponent of a (limited more) "larger" Hall, I think that Maris belongs in. The record he broke in 1961 was practically bigger than the game itself, and it was a historic event that was celebrated bigly for decades afterwards.

I know that's not how the Hall traditionally works, and I know there will be plenty who disagree with me and that's fine - but I think Maris belongs in for his contributions to the game. There are many arguing the same right now for Curt Flood and his contributions to the game, which if that holds any water at all - then surely the same would be true of Maris. Clearly, neither have "traditional" HOF numbers for the positions they played.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I respectfully disagree. His value is where it should be. I don't believe he was showing signs of decline, and had he played a couple of more years there would be no doubt of his HoF eligibility. The Dodgers would have lost the 1981 Series. He probably would have managed. Just my opinion here; I don't have WAR or any other stats to try to prove a point.

In 1978 his OPS+ was 101. In 1979 his OPS+ was 95. Here is how he ranks against modern catchers.

Piazza OPS+ 143
Posey OPS+ 129
Bench OPS+ 126
Mauer OPS+ 124
Simmons OPS+ 118
Fisk OPS+ 117
Munson OPS+ 116
Carter OPS+ 115
I Rodriguez OPS+ 106

The only two guys below him as hitters were much better defensively. Munson was clearly in decline and if he had finished his career, his OPS+ would have ended up much worse and below Carter too.

Munson was not as good as any of the modern day HOF catchers. As to his HOF eligibility, if Simmons couldn't get elected by the BBWWA, I'm not sure that Munson would have either.

[ASF123]

Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan. Neither was an inner-circle all-time great player. (ducks to avoid flying projectiles)

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan. Neither was an inner-circle all-time great player. (ducks to avoid flying projectiles)

agree 🙂 .. Not enough hits or no hitters to be inner circle

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

agree 🙂 .. Not enough hits or no hitters to be inner circle

They both were great at one thing for a very long time, but had significant weaknesses that prevented them from providing the overall value of some of their contemporaries.

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan. Neither was an inner-circle all-time great player. (ducks to avoid flying projectiles)

While the projectiles are already flying anyway, I'll add one more: Derek Jeter

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan. Neither was an inner-circle all-time great player. (ducks to avoid flying projectiles)

One could observe Ryan was pretty similar in value to Gaylord Perry.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by rats60

In 1978 his OPS+ was 101. In 1979 his OPS+ was 95. Here is how he ranks against modern catchers.

Piazza OPS+ 143
Posey OPS+ 129
Bench OPS+ 126
Mauer OPS+ 124
Simmons OPS+ 118
Fisk OPS+ 117
Munson OPS+ 116
Carter OPS+ 115
I Rodriguez OPS+ 106

The only two guys below him as hitters were much better defensively. Munson was clearly in decline and if he had finished his career, his OPS+ would have ended up much worse and below Carter too.

Munson was not as good as any of the modern day HOF catchers. As to his HOF eligibility, if Simmons couldn't get elected by the BBWWA, I'm not sure that Munson would have either.

"He had simply fallen from an elite catcher to an above aveage one. He still had a long way to go. In 1978, Munson had accumulated 3.1 WAR. In 1979 (the year he died), Munson had earned 2.2 WAR through 97 games."

[perezfan]

Greenberg- NOT overrated. Remember he lost his prime years to WW2 and still posted crazy numbers in a relatively short career.

Jeter and Henderson get my votes as most overrated. Especially Henderson's ultra-common rookie card. Many of the 7s look as good/better than the 9s and 10s. People are paying stupid money for a random number on a flip, and not the very common card itself.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by rats60

In 1978 his OPS+ was 101. In 1979 his OPS+ was 95. Here is how he ranks against modern catchers.

Piazza OPS+ 143
Posey OPS+ 129
Bench OPS+ 126
Mauer OPS+ 124
Simmons OPS+ 118
Fisk OPS+ 117
Munson OPS+ 116
Carter OPS+ 115
I Rodriguez OPS+ 106

Speaking of catchers I'll then nominate Yogi Berra. His cards trade as if he was the best catcher of all time and he certainly wasn't. Not even close.

[packs]

I don't think you can take anything away from Yogi. He won three MVPs and is in pretty rare company. Only three other catchers have more home runs than he does, no catchers have more RBIs, and only six catchers have more hits.

Maybe not the greatest all time but hard to say he doesn't have a seat at the table.

[Touch'EmAll]

Heads Up ! Projectiles thrown !

The knocks on both Berra & Ryan, not gonna say much, just shake my head.

[tod41]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I respectfully disagree. His value is where it should be. I don't believe he was showing signs of decline, and had he played a couple of more years there would be no doubt of his HoF eligibility. The Dodgers would have lost the 1981 Series. He probably would have managed. Just my opinion here; I don't have WAR or any other stats to try to prove a point.

He was absolutely declining and he was considering retiring. He was not going to stay in the game.

[tod41]

Originally Posted by paul

Isn't Thurman Munson a bit overrated by card collectors? I'm someone who thinks he probably belongs in the Hall of Fame, but his card values seem to equate to the upper echelon of the Hall of Fame. And I don't think he belongs there.

Absolutely correct. A very good ballplayer who was on the decline and then a tragic ending.