Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED

[Balticfox]

"Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED"

I fully disagree!

1. I share the opinion of most MLB players. Sure Ohtani is very good. But he's not 10x or 50x as good as the average player which his salary indicates.

2. His cards are correspondingly overvalued. They're all just pieces of cardboard like any other from the set. Shohei Ohtani and Joe Shlobatnik cards are fundamentally near identical. Why some collectors choose to chase/covet just certain cards from a set and drive their prices to nosebleed levels is beyond me.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Wrong board, my dude. This is a pre-1945 board. Your topic belongs in the post-1980 section of the Postwar Cards area.

While we often disagree, here I'm in full agreement. Yet this thread remains in an entirely inappropriate forum.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Whether he's the best or not, if Ohtani isn't in your top-5 hitters in all of baseball anywhere on the planet I don't know what to say.

MVP caliber hitter. CY caliber pitcher. Unless one wants to pick on Ohtani's ability to pitch 200-ish IP as a pitcher, both stand strong.

Guy is about to hit 40+ homers for the 3rd time in 4 years. He's going to join the 40-40 club. He's recovering from Tommy John surgery while doing it. wtf...

3.01 ERA, 1.08 WHIP over 481.2ip

It's easy to ignore his pitching based on injury, but based on results when healthy it isn't.

His biggest knock is he doesn't play the field and if he did, it would most likely be below average.

Long story short...I've never seen anyone like him in my lifetime with skills this elevated and I'm not sure anyone else here has, either.

He's not a rare player, he's not a generational player, he's only being compared to Ruth because who else are you going to compare a guy with his skill set to that played in 1900+? He's a very unique player.

All very nice but entirely irrelevant. The question is about the pricing of his card. And even were I to concede the point that a player's card prices should reflect that player's relative performance on the field (which is a debateable assumption), Ohtani is not 10x or 100x better than the average Dodger. Ask any of his former teammates.

[molenick]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

"Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED"

2. His cards are correspondingly overvalued. They're all just pieces of cardboard like any other from the set. Shohei Ohtani and Joe Shlobatnik cards are fundamentally near identical. Why some collectors choose to chase/covet just certain cards from a set and drive their prices to nosebleed levels is beyond me.

I essentially agree with this, when you get right down to it, it makes no sense. Based on the raw material involved, almost all baseball cards have equal value, which is next to nothing.

But coveting certain cards is the basis of pricing for the entire hobby, not just Shohei Ohtani cards. Why does Babe Ruth cost more than Marv Throneberry? Why does T208 cost more than T207? Why does PSA 8 cost more than PSA 7? Why does the first card of a player cost more than the last card?

Hobby pricing is just supply and demand and right now there is high demand for Ohtani cards. Whether that demand will continue and thus maintain his card prices is unknown.

[By the way, don't stop too long to think about why we pay money for cardboard. If everyone does this, the entire hobby will collapse!]

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by molenick

But coveting certain cards is the basis of pricing for the entire hobby, not just Shohei Ohtani cards. Why does Babe Ruth cost more than Marv Throneberry? Why does T208 cost more than T207? Why does PSA 8 cost more than PSA 7? Why does the first card of a player cost more than the last card?

I put the extreme range down to silliness. That though is because I'm not among the fortunate few for whom money is no object. I have to weigh the relative "merits" of any purchase.

Originally Posted by molenick

Hobby pricing is just supply and demand and right now there is high demand for Ohtani cards. Whether that demand will continue and thus maintain his card prices is unknown.

[By the way, don't stop too long to think about why we pay money for cardboard. If everyone does this, the entire hobby will collapse!]

I long ago realized that my collecting is a compulsion, an addiction even. I keep telling myself that it's better (less pathetic) than being a smoker, alcoholic or drug addict but I may just be rationalizing and thus fooling myself.

[molenick]

I know...every now and then I ask myself why I would rather have this card than the money I spend on it that could go towards literally anything else in the world *...and then I buy the card anyway.

And, yes, obviously we all know why certain cards cost a lot of money...it is the wide disparity in pricing that sometimes makes you go "woah".

* not "anything" but you get my drift

[jboosted92]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

The hype machine needed to be turned way down for this guy. You just don't compare someone to Babe Ruth, plain and simple. The odds of living up to such expectations are practically nil. For me personally, all the hype turned me off from caring, but I don't follow modern baseball to begin with.

If the media had toned it down a few notches, far more people would be impressed by him. His stats are pretty nice. .667 PCT over 5 seasons? At this point, he's won exactly twice as many games as he's lost. When Babe Ruth is the bar you're expected to measure up to, you're basically left to twist in the wind if you can't prove you can walk on water.

ahem

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by molenick

I know...every now and then I ask myself why I would rather have this card than the money I spend on it that could go towards literally anything else in the world *...and then I buy the card anyway.

This is me exactly. Sometimes I wonder what makes my coveting of cards ticker tick?
Is it nostalgia? I can remember times when I could not have thought to own some of the cards I have today.
I think at the end of the day for me, I still like looking at them although I will not own them forever. Enjoy them while you can.

All cardboard is essentially worthless. But heck we buy it anyway.

[Balticfox]

I'd just like to add that I'm not disparaging Shohei Ohtani as a player. How many decades has it been since an effective pitcher could hit as well as Ohtani? More than a century perhaps?



But what are the rarest Ohtani cards? Are any XX/10 rare?

[Peter_Spaeth]

The Topps, Chrome, and Update cards and the more common variations (e.g. Refractors which have long since ceased to be anything special) seem to have been produced in huge quantities, but keep rising in price especially in PSA 10. What I find interesting, given that he obviously has become much more an elite hitter than elite pitcher, is that the cards showing him as a pitcher seem just as popular if not more so. Finally, with all the hoopla about him being a true two way player as a rookie, why are there so few RCs depicting him in both poses? You would think that would have been a natural choice for Topps etc.

[packs]

He has hitting and pitching variations of his flagship Topps rookies with one being rarer than the other depending on the set.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There may be others but I found only this one with both poses on one card.

[Yoda]

Peter, that is one great baseball card and captures the essence of Otani as a 2 way player. Not yours by any chance?

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The Topps, Chrome, and Update cards and the more common variations (e.g. Refractors which have long since ceased to be anything special) seem to have been produced in huge quantities, but keep rising in price especially in PSA 10. What I find interesting, given that he obviously has become much more an elite hitter than elite pitcher, is that the cards showing him as a pitcher seem just as popular if not more so. Finally, with all the hoopla about him being a true two way player as a rookie, why are there so few RCs depicting him in both poses? You would think that would have been a natural choice for Topps etc.

His first card that depicts him both hitting and pitching is the 2013 Calbee D-07. It's also his first Calbee card and one of his earlier rookie cards from Japan.

https://japanesebaseballcards.blogsp...ology.html?m=1

[bcbgcbrcb]

In today’s game, 40/40 is barely meaningful. About 50% of MLB does 20/20. Pre-steroids, maybe one or two players a season did that and 30/30 was nearly unheard of outside a scant few such as Bonds/Bonds, etc. All the Judge 60 HR seasons are a joke and cannot be compared to historic greats when 20-30 players a season hit 30+ homers today.

Today’s players make enough money to pay personal trainers, dieticians, etc. 24 hours a day, 365 days a year to keep them in optimal playing condition. In Honus Wagner’s day, he had to be some rich person’s personal trainer during the off-season just to make enough money to survive on. My how times have changed, huh? Think about that before idolizing today’s athletes and the gaudy numbers they put up.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by bk400

His first card that depicts him both hitting and pitching is the 2013 Calbee D-07. It's also his first Calbee card and one of his earlier rookie cards from Japan.

https://japanesebaseballcards.blogsp...ology.html?m=1

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Nice list. I only own a couple of Ohtani cards (for now), but I love the aesthetic appeal of this 2013 card I recently picked up.
-

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

In today’s game, 40/40 is barely meaningful. About 50% of MLB does 20/20. Pre-steroids, maybe one or two players a season did that and 30/30 was nearly unheard of outside a scant few such as Bonds/Bonds, etc. All the Judge 60 HR seasons are a joke and cannot be compared to historic greats when 20-30 players a season hit 30+ homers today.

Today’s players make enough money to pay personal trainers, dieticians, etc. 24 hours a day, 365 days a year to keep them in optimal playing condition. In Honus Wagner’s day, he had to be some rich person’s personal trainer during the off-season just to make enough money to survive on. My how times have changed, huh? Think about that before idolizing today’s athletes and the gaudy numbers they put up.

If you were pumped full of steroids, given the dietitian and strength coaches, would you hit 60 homers in the bigs?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

If you were pumped full of steroids, given the dietitian and strength coaches, would you hit 60 homers in the bigs?

Nope. Not even one. The hand-eye coordination to play ball is a genetic legacy and is beyond rare. About 10,000 men have played MLB. Only a few hundred well enough to last 10+ seasons and be good enough to get into the HOF. Same is true of most sports' elite performers. I knew a fellow who was a pretty good amateur boxer until he got into a local Golden Gloves and got destroyed by a buzzsaw named "Hagler."

As for Ohtani cards, they aren't undervalued even now. They trade so regularly and consistently, and are tracked on multiple indices that are real time reporting on sales, that they are never undervalued. Some of his cards, like some of any superstar's cards, may be better investments than others for future appreciation. Different question, really.

[doug.goodman]

They are plunging in value tonight

[Balticfox]

Ohtani is carrying the Dodgers!

[bcbgcbrcb]

Ruth outhomered every TEAM in the American League TWICE! How many teams has Judge or Ohtani outhomered in their entire careers? ZERO!

Nuff said.

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There may be others but I found only this one with both poses on one card.

There's this one as well.

[hammertime]

Here's another one from Japan.

[theshowandme]

4-4 with 2 homers, 2 doubles, and 5 walks in a World Series game

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by MLB

No player had ever reached base more than six times in a postseason game -- let alone a World Series game -- before Ohtani reached NINE times in an 18-inning marathon against the Blue Jays.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

4-4 with 2 homers, 2 doubles, and 5 walks in a World Series game

If he goes hitless for a third straight game, he may be that kind of goat temporarily.