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#1
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: warshawlaw
I read in the Times this am that he is going to fess up to betting on baseball games while he managed the Reds. This after 12 years of lying to everyone in earshot about his actions. Bastard broke one of the primary rules of baseball, one so profound that it is printed on the wall in every clubhouse. He should go to his grave without ever setting foot in the HOF. |
#2
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Glen V
Yet F. Jenkins can pitch while on cocaine and be allowed in... |
#3
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: jay behrens
Difference is that the only person Fergie was hurting was himself. Don't know if you've ever done coke, but from personal experience, it doesn't help you throw better. Kind of like the guy the Olympic snowboarder that got popped for marijuana. Big deal. Getting stoned doesn't enhance performance. |
#4
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Wade
I agree, Rose, Shoeless Joe, they should all rot. |
#5
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: ramram
he should be let in because of his accomplishments...but...not until he's dead and gone. That way he never gets to enjoy his day in the spotlight. |
#6
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
Ted Williams was for Joe Jackson's lifetime banishment. However, he interpreted this to mean that he could (and should) be voted in after his death. |
#7
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Rhett
I agree that Pete Rose should rot. He was found to be guilty, and since that ruling was made, NOTHING HAS CHANGED!!! The only new evidence is himself admitting to doing it. By allowing him to get back in you are sending the message that gambling is not all that bad of an offense. Soon we will have a Hal Chase on every team. Personally, I don't care if you gamble while a player or as a manager, to me the latter is possibly worse. If he ever is admitted back into the hall it should be mandatory that his plaque should read... GOOD player, mediocre manager, and an even bigger gambler. |
#8
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Cy
Come on Rhett, he was a great player and only a mediocre gambler. He couldn't pick teams to save his life! |
#9
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
Incompetence is not an acceptable defence. Otherwise, that guy who robbed the McDonalds then went there the next morning for breakfast wouldn't be in jail. |
#10
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
I'm sorry, but a manager (and player) betting against his own team doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame ... And, pleeeeeeease, don't anyone say, "But Pete says he never bet on any of his own games. This time's he says he's being honest. In his last autobiography (Kahn) may have he lied, but this autogiography he's telling the truth." |
#11
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
If Rose has class, the first thing he should do is appologize, not to MLB or Selig or John Doud or Roger Kahn, but to all those loyal Rose fans across the country who ardently (and may still) feel that Rose belongs in the Hall as they beleive him when he say he didn't bet on baseball. |
#12
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: jw
Alledgedly Joe Jackson accepted $5,000.00 (while promised much more) to blow the 1919 series. Although he did perform quite well in that series, he entered into an agreement to lose the series. I have looked over the Dowd report and have not seen any evidence that Rose ever put himself in a position where the Reds losing was profitable for himself. If I were to see evidence that Rose bet against his team, I would have no problem with the rotting. I guess that is where I draw the line. I would guess that the number of HOF players (let alone all players) that have bet someone (whether a legal bet, or not) that their team would win a game or series would be rather large. In other words, it's not the bet to win that scares me, but the bet to lose. |
#13
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
Pesonally, I have little concern with the Hall of Fame, but the one thing I can't stand on this earth is insincerity (fakes and liars). Whether Hall worthy or unworthy I will let up to others, but I put Rose in the league with politician's campaign promises, fast food marketers and Ken Goldin-- which, in my view, is about as low as you can go in this world. |
#14
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)
I won't go through my usual diatribe about this loser and the fact that he knew the rules, knew the punishment, and still carries on like he's the victim. Fact is, he is one of the most competitive, win-at-all-costs persons ever associated with baseball. For him to bet dozens of times on his own team and claim he didn't use inside information or otherwise tweak the lineup would be completlely out of character for him, and is as unbelievable as his prior, 15 years of steadfast denials that he bet on basebball at all. I cannot help but believe that rotations were altered, certain players given rest for certain games, more pitchers used in games that he bet (making them at least potentially less effective for the next game), etc. To suggest that this does not effect the integrity of the game is myopic at best. |
#15
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: warshawlaw
forgive my ignorance. |
#16
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: warshawlaw
Disclaimer: I am genuinely pissed because I was a big Pete Rose fan ever since I was a kid (I still have the autographed postcard I got when I was a kid; probably a clubhouse signature, but I've kept it nonetheless over the decades) and felt that he was being screwed by the baseball powers if his ban was not baseball betting related. Now that he's admitted he was lying to fans like me for 14 years, I feel the way I did when I finally got to meet the great Willie Mays and he was a prick. Kills a little more of my love for the game. They can both rot. But on to the arguments raised. |
#17
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: craig
while i kind of agree that i dont see much wrong with showing confidence in betting your team to win, there are problems that come along with it. whoever rose was placing his bets with for his team to win had an advantage over all other in the sports betting world. they would have the inside knowledge of the games that rose did not bet on. this would seem to show that rose was unsure of his team ability to be victorious in the game. while "possibly" not being profitable for rose, it surely was valuable, and profitable, knowledge for the bookie. now if rose had bet his team to win on every single game of the season that advantage would be gone and i would see no problem with that. i grew up as a huge rose fan and hate the fact that he screwed us all, his fans. but i hope that he is never enshrined in the glorious hall of fame. |
#18
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: W.M.
Rose is just a con man. For how many years now he has lied about betting on baseball to his closest friends and fans, now he decides he is going to confess his gambling sins. I find it funny that his timing coincides with not to many years left for him to be considered for the hall of fame and his new book hits the shelves. I think this is a ploy to sucker $24.95 a book from his remaining fans. |
#19
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: leon
At this point I don't believe he should be let in given his years of lieing. I do believe in second chances (thank goodness I got one) and will never say never. With that being said I can not forget the time, a few years ago, when he was signing autographs at a show and genuinely took the time with everyone to make them feel special. I saw him take numerous pics and spend time with kids and make them smile. He joked around and was very good natured. It gave me tingles. I am in no way taking up for what he did as it was flat out wrong. It's sure a shame that the all time hit leader messed up so badly.......will make an interesting show Thursday......regards all |
#20
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Mike (18colt)
I'll preface what I'm going to say with the following: I was a huge fan of Rose during his playing days, and a huge collector of his cards. I am still a fan of Pete Rose. |
#21
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Eric
Mike, like you, I don't condemn Pete Rose. Glen V brought up a good point in his original response to this link, about Fergie Jenkins. Glen only hit on the surface of what many major league ball players do to hurt the integrity of the game though, which morally and effectually incriminate baseball as a whole. Pete Rose made mistakes, many mistakes. The man bet on baseball, and lied about it. However, I also believe that Rose did absolutely NOTHING that deteriorated the game, and I'm convinced that so many other major leaguers have done far worse, with absolutely no incrimination or punishment from the league. Lets put this in terms of the common sense, I think everyone should ask themselves what actions and decisions are worse in life? Is betting and lying worse than: taking drugs and admitting it (in most cases multiple times), arrest on felony charges, spousal abuse, murder, driving under the influence, trafficing drugs, felony theft, rape, etc..? |
#22
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Todd
Leaving aside the various remarks you made about other players and focusing on Pete Rose, how is it you can call people "ignorant" for stating Pete Rose was banned for betting on baseball when in fact that is exactly why he was banned. Do you honestly think he was banned for some other reason, or that he just agreed to be "ineligble" for the hell of it? |
#23
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Jason
If morality was an issue we all should be rotting. All have sinned and fallen short. The bottom line is that Pete's career as a player was deserving for the Hall of Fame. Now the only logical question is: Should he be able to get in during his lifetime? I feel maybe not because he did break the rules. Should we pull out the Babe, Cobb, and others? What about Shoeless Joe? He was made to suffer the rest of his life. Why did Strawberry get 28 chances after drug rehab? The debate could go on and on. Let him in in the year 2040. He deserves the Hall. |
#24
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Kenny Cole
Comparing Pete Rose's betting on baseball with other athletes who commit crimes or do drugs is very much like comparing apples to oranges. Do both affect the integrity of the game? My answer is absolutely, although one is much more direct than the other. However, there is still a huge difference between the two. |
#25
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Jason
I agree somewhat. I think he deserves to be in but not during his lifetime. He should not get to enjoy that. |
#26
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Cy
Isn't it openly known that Cobb bet on baseball? |
#27
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: jay behrens
After the 1926 season, it was strongly suggested to both Cobb and Speaker that they leave the game, becuase there was strong suspicion that the two of them were fixing games they played against each other. they both quit their jobs as manager. |
#28
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
What this whole episode goes to show us is that athletes' autobiographies should be taken with a grain of salt. |
#29
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: runscott
I have thought Pete Rose was scum since '73 - that was when my 7 yr-old brother (and several other tykes) asked him to sign a ball after a game, and he smiled and told him he would be right back after he put his clothes in the team bus. I still have a photo I took of Rose with his suit bag slung over his shoulder as he headed for the bus. He then took a leisurely seat in the back of the bus, on the side near the kids, and smiled mockingly at them through the window. You never saw so many 7-yr old jaws drop in your life - I was incredulous. That was Rose the sadistic bastard. |
#30
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
David Wells said that he was misquoted in his autobiography |
#31
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Carl
Time for all the anti-Rose peeps to wake up to reality. I have a bunch of opinions on this. |
#32
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
Carl, I appreate your input, but we were having a quiet discussion about the narrative voice in autobiographies, including Mr. Wells' use of hot dogs with boilermaker chasers imagery on page 223. To me, this imagery suggests Boomers' hunger for a Kiergeguardian absolute faith in God. Though someone else had the worthy point of view that this may show that he was hungry and wanted to get hammered. |
#33
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Adam J. Baxter
I'm not going to waste valuable Forum space griping about Rose. I was a huge Rose fan as a kid and now, especially over this last week, I feel betrayed. There have been lots of interesting opinions both for and against Rose on this board and I've enjoyed reading them. But I think no one can sum up the whole Pete Rose situation better then Grandmaster Gammons: |
#34
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Cy
Adam, interesting article on Rose by Gammons. So now he won't vote for Rose because all Rose thinks about is himself. I guess Gammons will also not vote for Bonds. |
#35
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Rose is scum, no doubt. But so are many players in the HOF. He bet on games which, other than fixing games, is the lowest thing you can do to the game itself. That being said, who the hell is MLB to be the morality police? It's a game...period. Let the lowlife in but just ban him from ever being permitted to work in the professional baseball industry. |
#36
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Mike (18colt)
Per Todd's request, I reread the agreement signed by Pete Rose and MLB pertaining to Rose's banishment. Todd asked the question pertaining to the reason for Rose's banishment if it was not gambling. |
#37
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Kenny Cole
Actually, a violation of Rule 21(f) does not mandate a lifetime suspension. In 1947, Leo Durocher was suspended for one year while manager of the Brooklyn Dodgers for a violation of Rule 21(f), i.e., for "conduct detrimental to baseball." His offense? Consorting with mobsters, gangsters, and other character types viewed as unsavory by the Baseball powers that be. He was back in 1948 and obviously went on to manage the Giants and make it to the HOF. |
#38
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: runscott
None of his behavior has been out of character for an addict and habitual liar. If he were truly repenting, he would simply call a press conference (to be held at a more appropriate time), announce what he did and ask forgiveness from his public and from baseball, then step down from the podium and wait. And while waiting, perhaps stay out of the casinos and race tracks. Also, either before or after said announcement, he should repent to Selig as well. |
#39
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: jay behrens
Seems most people here are forgetting a few things. #1 is that the HOF is NOT owned, operated or controled by MLB. #2 I forget the exact wording of the criteria for getting into the HOF, but the word INTEGRITY is one of them. And Rose lacks it in great amounts. |
#40
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
Here is what I think is a worthwhile point on the subject, and one that I think some forget: |
#41
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: runscott
Agreed. If the Cobb/Speaker incident were to come up today, would we want them banished from the game? Few on this board would be in favor of Cobb's banishment, despite what we know about his deplorable behavior - he's simply a nasty but great baseball player to us, and rightfully sits in the HOF. And Speaker is a vintage favorite, despite admitted betting on ML games. Maybe if we had been alive during the Cobb/Speaker thing, and the details had been in the paper every day, we would have been in favor of their banishment as well. |
#42
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: jay behrens
The biggest difference between the Cobb/Speaker incident and the Rose situation is that Cobb and Speaker walked away quietly without raising a stink. Rose on the other hand was incapable of following the simple instructions asked of him and has done nothing but dig his hole deeper. |
#43
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Mike (18colt)
The point was made a few posts ago that the HOF is not controlled by MLB, etc. Though true for the most part, one link remains. |
#44
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Kenny Cole
Pete Rose doesn't need to be elected to the HOF in order for it to reflect his "rich contributions" to the game. It undoubtedly has plenty of the Rose photos, cards, uniforms, bats, gloves, and other memorabilia necessary to celebrate his achivements. He may have even signed some of those items (for a price, of course). Similarly, the HOF has Joe Jackson items and items from players who had one or more shining moments of glory but who nonetheless will never be elected, i.e., Don Larson. Indeed, if the HOF's primary function is simply to act as a museum, it doesn't need to ever elect any members. How many museums do? If it is just a museum celebrating the history of the game, that celebration can be adequately exemplified by the artifacts reflecting that history. |
#45
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
How's this for a fair compromise. Rose can become unconditionally eligible for the Hall of Fame, but he has to wait the same fifteen years that it took for him to admit to his deed (and, for 15 years, having no apparent problem whatsoever with painting Jim Gray, deceased Giammati, Fay Vincent, Kahn, fellow teammates, etc of being liars). And if it takes 3 years from now for him to admit that he bet from the clubhouse (again, despite what Down says) and that he refused to bet on Reds games whenever Mario Sota or Bill Gullickson was scheduled to start (gee, no harm in betting for your team, huh? If you bet for your team 3 out of 5 games and don't for the other two because you don't like your starters, isn't that essentially the same as betting against your team for two games? And, if it isn't, please explain to me how this is a constructive thing to be doing for your team. "Sorry, Soto, you suck. There's no way I'd bet for the Reds today." Wouldn't it all be simpler and cleaner if there was a rule in baseball that that manager shouldn't be allowed to bet on baseball games? Perhaps MLB should consider a rule), you add another 3 years to the total. |
#46
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
In short, I am all for Rose's eligibility for the Hall, in 15+ years. As a side benifit, this will encourage Pete to excercize, eat well and drop a couple of pounds so that he can enjoy the momentous day. |
#47
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
Lastly, I beleive in forgiveness and redemption. We all make mistakes .... However, saying sorry does not mean that all responsibilities and, as the case may be, punishment are automatically forgiven. In fact, in many to most cases, saying "I'm sorry" includes the willing acceptance of the due punishment .... Particularly with addictions, one of the worst things to do is to protect the addicted from their responsibilities. |
#48
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: Hankron
As exemplified by a years ago conversation I might have had with my mom: |
#49
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: leon
I was almost for letting him back in until last night. As one who teaches "Life Skills" every week to homeless veterans, that have drug and alcohol problems, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. Unless I am mistaking I didn't hear him admit he has a problem last night. I could have missed it though as I was rummaging (sp?) through a few hundred Zeenuts wondering if I might start collecting sets now? Mike Schmidt said it best...to parphrase him......if someone has a drinking problem they shouldn't work in a bar. From what I understand Rose recently (not sure when) became part owner in a racehorse. That's kind of like Michael Jackson baby sitting.....later |
#50
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Pete Rose Can Rot
Posted By: W.M.
I don't want to ever see Shoeless Joe get in either but after watching a pathetic Pete Rose on ABC last night I have alot more respect for Shoeless who quietly faded away and even though denied, quietly applied for re-instatement. |
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