E-UNC MATTY?

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Posted By: Bob Lemke

Here's the second mystery card. It is sepia on cream, measures about 1-15/16" x 1-17/32" and is blank-backed. There is some lettering at top-right, under the smutz. Could be CD MA or CD PA. Is this part of one of those poster thingies that has various sized player pictures?

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Posted By: Scott Mosley

Looks like a Plows Candy card to me....

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Posted By: barrysloate

That is identical to the E300 Plow's Candy, but why is it so small?

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Posted By: Zach

I'm guessing a super small reprint. Look at the link I provided at the bottom of my post, an E300 Mathewson reprint but also like the one above is smaller than the original. It is not as small but it does prove that there are E300 reprints out there and the printers can make them any size they want.
Item number: 8761656747
http://cgi.ebay.com/Christy-Mathewson-Plows-Candy-Early-Repro_W0QQitemZ8761656747QQcategoryZ31719QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

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Posted By: fkw

Since I sold it a couple years back. I only have a single picture of the 1909 sheet, I put a red square around the Mathewson picture on sheet.




To me It looks like a E300 Plow's Candy.

Edited to say it looks like everyone else figured it out too
I should read the post first

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Frank,
Here is a close up Pic of the Unc Matty from the sheet:

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Posted By: fkw

Cool, you have a picture. Thanks Brian Much better. I used to have closeup pictures of all of them, but left them on my old computer (which I gave away) and forgot to save them. Dumb mistake, I lost many pictures of unusual/uncataloged cards.

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Posted By: Brian Goldner

Was co-produced in the 1960's, by a couple of very prominent collectors from that time frame, Ray Billbrough and Ed Lotz. It was part of a series of sheets that were called The Classic Cards.

At the time, both Ray and Ed had stunning pre-war collections, with Ray's holdings, not being very far behind the Frank Nagy Collection.

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Posted By: leon

Thanks Brian,
I had heard that exact same explanation on this sheet before but couldn't quite place it.....best regards

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Posted By: fkw

Any more proof on the story?? There are ONLY 3 of them known.

Makes no sense to me IMO. The photos used in the sheet are unique as far as I know. And none of the photos are from baseball cards. The sheet was originally sold (3 of them in varying conditions) by a noncollector (lady). There are 2 pictures of Frank Chance (Mgr., 1st base). No Wagner or Cobb. All The players date it to exactly 1909, not 1908 or 1910.

From what the original owner/seller said, They were thought to be hung in a relatives ice cream store in the 1910 era. The paper is not modern and very brittle, the sheet has pinholes, tears, creases, and edge damage, with age stains on outer side from being rolled up for many years (and this one is the best of the 3). And the print is of the 1910 era style.

Never heard that story before. I had it pictured for a few years and no one wrote????

PS. I advanced Googled the 2 names you provided "Ray Billbrough" and "Ed Lotz" with the words "baseball cards", and nothing comes up except Lotz a player for a 1928 lacrosse team, and Billbrough supplied a couple photos to a Detroit Tiger website. "Frank Nagy" pulls up dozens of webpages. Am I missing something here??

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Posted By: bcornell

I have one of these sheets. Purchased on eBay a couple of years ago for ~$40. The seller noted that he had a bunch that came from a factory in the 60's.

Bill

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Posted By: fkw

Interesting. I have only seen them 1 time in 25 years, never seen any besides the 1 on eBay (seller had 2 others that were sold sametime non-eBay). I cant see why they would make it in the 1960's without Cobb and Wagner, and have players/teams date so perfectly to early 1909? And why no identification/copyright/printer info?? Oh well.

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Posted By: Brian Goldner

is from personal experience.

I grew up as a neighbor of Ray Billbrough, and it was he who introduced me to pre-war cards, in about 1969. The reason that there isn't much internet info on Ray, is that he sold his vast collection in around 1971. I believe that Frank Nagy ended up with most, if not all of it.

The only show where i remember Ray setting up, was at the Statler Hilton in Detroit, in September of 1970. I was there that day (age 10), and still have the convention program. In that program, there is mention of The Classic Cards.

There is only 3 of these known to exist?
FKW, if that statement is true, which i highly doubt, then you can make it 4, as i have one as well, which came from Ray.

With regard to Ed, i lost track of him in the late 1970's or so (college years), so i not sure if he is still living, or what became of his collection. If still living, i believe that he would be in his mid-80's today.

In closing, Thank you Leon, it is my pleasure to contribute to the discussion.

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Posted By: fkw

Well, I guess there is at least 5. Its funny how I can get 50,000+ hits on my old site in 3 years, with this sheet pictured, and not a single person emails me with info. Yet it is pictured here and 3-4 people have info in a couple hours. I remember when this sheet was in a post on the old (preNet54) message board (at time of original eBay sale) and no one seen or knew what the heck it was. Oh well learn something new everyday.

Who are the players on the other related ("series of") sheets?? Never seen them either.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Guy's,
I bet Frank and I have posted these posters 5-6 times on the board, but this is the first time anyone has ever mentioned seeing one. I bought the other 2 sheets off EBAY from the same seller as Frank. I do recall the same Ice Cream parlor story, and beleive the seller was from Michigan or Wisconsin, but I'm not certain. I would love to see scans of the other sheets if it's not too much trouble. Thanks Brian

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Posted By: Brian Goldner

Hi Brian,

The only one that i still have, is the one that Frank pictured. I've owned it for over 35 years. It seems like i had 1-2 other sheets back then, but what happened to them, i wish i knew.

Best, Brian

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Posted By: Robert S

Frank, is the email you list on your Web site still valid?

I sent you an email on February 3rd and wanted to make sure you received it...

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Posted By: Preece1

The Cobb and Wagner cards were in the 2nd series. Here is the front and back of the Cobb with a checklist. I picked this up at a Michigan show in 1975 (when I was 10).

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Posted By: bcornell

Here's something from this forum about this sheet. Unfortunately, the listing can't be viewed now and I can't remember who the seller was. I do remember he left no doubt in his description that it was from the 60's, as Patrick and Brian have confirmed.

Bill

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Posted By: fkw

Do you have the Cobb in front of you?? Is it handcut? it looks similar but in one way it doesnt.

The unusual thing about the sheet with the Matty on it, is all the photos are actually photographs of photos. Its hard to explain, but the white border around the picture is the real border of the picture, the dark area that looks like a line around this white border is actually the background the photo was on that has been cropped to look like a dark line. Thats why the white border around the picture and the large white border (with caption) is not exactly the same color. The Cobb doesnt seem to be made the same way. It is similar though. There are some players in the second series checklist that are on the Matty sheet (repeats). I dont have a checklist handy, but remember many of the players. Does anyone have a second series Lajoie with the checklist back? Is it the same photo as the Lajoie on the sheet (bottom right corner)?

I had seen 2-3 single cards on eBay about 1999-2001 that looked handcut. This was right before I owned the sheet and could never remember who the players were. whatever they are they are rarely seen....... & Im on eBay (almost) every day for last 7 years


Frank

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Frank
Here is the checklist from the sheets we purchased:

Row 1. Griffith, Johnson, Ganley, Tinker, Chance, Conroy

Row 2. Bresnahan, Powell, Pfeister, McCarthy, McConnell, Jennings

Row 3. Lennox, McCormick, Merkle, Hoblitzell, Dahlen, Chance pose #2

Row 4. Ferguson, Camnitz, Ball, Hemphill, Baker, Mathewson

Row 5. Burch, Grant, Ames, Newton, Moran, Lajoie


Here are a few more pictures. None of these sheets have checklist on the back, they are blank.

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Posted By: Paul

Perhaps the sheet was originally printed in 1909 and then reprinted in the 1960s with a checklist on the back.

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Posted By: Glen V

I saved the Ebay picture and description. Here you go:

Uncut sheet of series 1 of the 1965 Classic Cards Set. Set was issued in four series of 30 cards each depicting players from the 1909-11 era. This sheet along with a few others I will be auctioning came directly from one of the individuals who issued the set almost 40 years ago. It is a test printing of the series as it is on thinner stock than the final product and is blank backed. The issued cards had a checklist of the respective series printed on the back. This series includes HOFers Lajoie, Baker, Chance, Bresnahan,Jennings, Griffith, Johnson, and Tinker. Sheet is in ex-mt condition. Winner pays $6.00 shipping (shipped rolled). Please check my other auctions for more vintage sports memorabilia. (smas99)