Posted By:
E, Daniel"Jeff, Daniel is the one that claimed Barry, myself and others with extensive knowledge act holier than thou. Those are his words."
Firstly Jay, you are pulling together numerous posts that I have written, and somehow decided to attribute them to yourself and Barry, when I in fact did not name you thus. I spoke generically of an attitude in postings on this site, and never made mention of yourself or anyone else.
I referred to Barry for his post regarding a warning of tampered cards in his direct knowledge, and Leon similarly, and asked for those who had such knowledge to share it with us all. I also commented, in harsh terms, that I believed doing otherwise unacceptable if one chose to bring it up in a post in an attempt to rally support, but not give up the actual facts as they are known, or believed. I stand by the statement completely, and that is all I made mention of in regards to Barry and any other 'experts' at Net54.
It seems to me that you Jay are in fact the one that was willing to accept that you may come across as arrogant:
"We may come across as holier than thou when it comes to card knwoledge because the knowledge we have obtained was hard fought for and tooks years and the handling of thousands of cards to gain this knowledge. Now with the internet, what took us old schoolers 10 years or more to learn can be learned ina matter of months, less the card handling. Nothing can substitute for that. You'll have to pardon our holier than thou attitute you seem to think we have, as we have earned this right."
And then this.....
"While you education maybe a wonderful thing, it's no better than going to school and getting a degree in art. Until you actually get a job with a museum and can actually get your hands on some paintings and start examining them, all the book learning in the world isn't going to substitute for the real thing."
I did alot more than read some books, and thought my description of working with actual commercial printing machinery and handling actual paper whilst producing real commericial artwork for the public kind of made a point.....clearly it did not. I was merely attmepting to mitigate your denegrating description of my knowledge and experience as it is relevant to the hobby. First time I had spoken thus of my background on the chatboard, and I guess I'm embarrassed that this too has been somehow made the butt of your reply.
"A number of people want proof for the accusations that cards are being altered and finding their way into slabs (a reasonably clear reference to my post). "Use your eyes and experience...what further proof do you need? I believe that Gil stated that one of the negative consequences of grading is the dumbing down of the hobby, collectors relying on the third-party system for peace of mind rather than their own experience. I couldn't agree more."
Again, as I mentioned before, I think this is a pretty pointed insult to collectors who have other preferences for how they collect, and clearly tries to paint the picture that such collectors are 'dumbed down' for their choices. I couldn't agree less.
"By calling out Barry you put him in a bad position. He has no responsibility to identify individuals and it would not improve the hobby. I think you know that. What are your true intentions and motivation for this post Daniel? Protecting an investment?"
And...
"Are you still sore because I called you out regarding your true motivations for criticizing Barry, Leon, and other board members?"
How absurd a duo of statements was this?
And....
"You are simply an antagonist, and I am embarrased that I am even responsding but want to clarify a few things regarding your personal attacks."
If you don't believe these personal, and offensive, good luck to you.
"As I stated in another thread yesterday, and now the accusation is being made explicitly, any suggestion that Barry or Leon or anyone else is part of a coverup just because they have heard rumors about things or have some second or third hand indirect knowledge is just plain stupid and irresponsible. Who the heck are you to judge them, Daniel? Give me a break and give us all some peace."
I guess just another benign response to my post, in your opinion Jay. And Bruce.
"Collectors may know about more cards now, but they don't, as a rule, know more about cards. Obviously I'm not talking about the many knowledgeable contributors to this forum."
Well, nice to know that if your part of the Net54 inner circle, you may actually know something about cards. Otherwise, you're as dolt.
"Collect whatever you want, the way you want, but don't chastise us because we have knowledge that you will never have because of the way you collect."
Hmmm. Never huh. I guess I should just give up now.
"I would hate to think what meek existance these people live in real world where people really are intimidating. They must want to run away and crawl under a rock if they meet someone intimidating in person."
My address is 4413 Goldfield st, Lawrence KS 66049. You won't find me hiding under any rocks if you should choose to visit.
And a number of members have now suggested I leave the forum because of my views...and I'm considering it. Definitely isn't worth being bashed personally by people I hadn't even entered into an argument or discussion with, or to be asked to take insult after insult and not reply.
Sincerely
Daniel
08-12-2006, 04:43 PM
A Troubling Hobby Developement
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