e93 Standard Caramel - my new favorite set

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Posted By: Bryan Long

I haven't posted in a while and plus it is always nice to see some great conversation about cards every now and then I know we talked about every set you can think of at least a dozen times. I have recently started collecting the e93 set only. I have decided to go after one set at a time since I, for the most part, have no expendable income for cards anymore. Since collecting the set it has become my new favorite. I'm not sure why, but this has very much caught my eye - whether it be the color or the amount of HOFers in the set I'm not sure. I know Jim has some very nice looking e93 cards that I wish I had, but I thought I would try and start some dialog about this set. How other collectors feel about it, what draws them to the set and how easy it was for them to complete - if they have completed it. After about two months of working hard on the set I am about half way through. Obviously the big three in the set (Cobb, Wagner and Matty) will be difficult, but I am assuming that if you had the cash on hand you could almost complete this set in a matter of weeks. Agree? Disagree?

Just to at least have a card posted I figured I would add two cards that I just recently acquired thanks to a board member.




EDITED: Because I do not spell well on the fly.

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Posted By: Steve f

Nice looking 2's. It's a great looking set.

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Posted By: Bryan Long

Thanks for the compliment on the cards. The cards are really nice for 2s, I think on the front. Great color. The Waddell has a banged up lower right corner that you can't see by the scan. Plus the Young has the MK and a some paper loss on the back.

.

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Posted By: Dave

What is the going rate right now for common 2's?

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Posted By: Bill K

Nice to see you post again Bryan! I couldn't agree more about the E93's. I like them the best because they are VERY accurate representations of the players (with good poses) and have outstanding color and backgrounds.





The Leach is my favorite, plus I love the green to purple to blue dark background of the Phillippi.

Good topic!

Bill

My personal collection - http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/

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Posted By: Josh Adams

Bryan,

I agree. I love the e93s/ I too have started this set, I have 10 cards, all from board members. Beautiful color, chock full o' HOFers, and very managable.


Go Go White Sox
2005 World Series Champions!

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Posted By: Bryan Long

I was bidding a very bad beater lot of 5 commons on ebay only last week. My snipe was set at $175 which was above what I thought it would go for. The lot was a beater lot for sure, but I needed every card. I was outbid. Most of the 2s that I have watched have been going for $125 all the way up to $170. I was a little sticker shocked at first with the prices that the cards were going, but have managed to pick up almost every card I have from members of this board for pretty much what I would have paid on ebay or maybe a little less in some circumstances. Plus, I have also gotten a few good deals every now and then on ebay, but that doesn't happen often anymore.

If other feels that I am way off I would love to hear their experiences.

.

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Posted By: Bryan Long

I have seen a couple of the blank backed cards on the bay, but haven't pulled the trigger yet on them. What is the real story behind them? I thought it would be a nice addition to the set when it is completed.

.

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Posted By: mark

Although that card is a SGC 10 it still looks very nice and colorful, can't beat the price also. I am sure you will complete the set and wish you luck.

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Posted By: Jerry

My Lone E93...I'm going to send off for grading...Probally a 2 but one can hope for a 3. The back is clean with no paperloss.

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Posted By: Brett

I was trying for the set just before the prices went through the roof. I've got given up on the e93s...

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Posted By: Bob

Bryan- I don't know what you paid for the 2 cards but they sure look nice. Congrats.
Bob

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Posted By: Bryan Long

Thanks for the kind words Bob. The set is not as hard as some that is for sure - but it sure is a beauty.

.

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Posted By: Jeff Mohler

Since I am from Lancaster, PA - Home of the e93 set, I guess I have to collect it. The prices sure are high, but the cards are really beautiful too, so maybe they cancel each other out. The five I do have (Gibson, Dooin, Leach, Collins and Ames) are pretty much beaters.

Does anyone agree with me that Collins sure does look strange in this set?

Jeff

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Posted By: Bryan Long

If you want to part with the Gibson and the Ames, shoot me an e-mail.

.

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Posted By: JimB

Bryan,
This is a great set! I think it is far away the best looking caramel set imho. Great images, colors, high % of HOF.

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Posted By: JimB

I just love this set. By the way, I think Chance is probably the toughest card in the set. Don't know why. They were all printed on a single sheet, so presumably in equal numbers.
JimB

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Posted By: Bryan Long

I have been waiting for you to show off your e93 cards. It is about time I just love looking at those - they are amazing! YOu can post them whenever you feel like it. Even the rough cards that have very little front affect look great.

.

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Posted By: JK

e93s are definitely my favorite set as well. To answer some questions - collins, IMO, is one of the worst looking cards in the set. Its also not Eddie Collins that is pictured - I believe the consensus is that its Jimmy Collins (at least its still a HOFer). As for the blank backs, I dont believe they are considered "proofs." Rather, they seem to have all been hand cut from sheets that did not have printing done on the reverse - I think many dont consider them proofs because there is no evidence of alignment marks on the cards. Maybe the shees were printers scraps - I dont really know. I have a couple and, like Jim B. tend to think they are rarer than what the common belief may be. I know he's done it before, but hopefully Jim B. can expand on this.

While Jim has the nicest high grade set of e93s Ive ever seen, I like to think Ive got some of the nicest low to mid grade e93s out there (though Ive up graded many cards in my set, some of these will probably never be upgraded despite the lower grades). My apologies to anyone who's seen enough of these:





And a blank back for good measure:

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Posted By: Brett

I only have a couple decent looking e93's. The Jennings is trimmed, but besides that, its a pretty nice card. The Jones is one of my better caramels (most are beaters)

I think the e93s have the nicest backgrounds (Leach)I've always liked the image of Waddell in the e93 set. I think the e93, e94 and e98 Cobb could have been different... same image... but the e94s and e98s have some of the best images of the players. I like the e94 Young & Wagner and the e98 Mathewson.

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Posted By: Jimi

...finally see you posting again, Bryan! Someone post the Collins. You're all talking about it, so someone post it! Great looking cards, and thanks for not showing the backs of those 2s. I'd hate for you to ruin the beauty of the fronts. Great finds, Bry!

Jimi

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Posted By: JK

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Posted By: Paul

My favorite too, but I don't own a single one of them. How can that be? All of those cards posted above look awesome. Great colors & images.

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Posted By: B.C.Daniels

http://www.psacard.com/set%5Fregistry/display_cards.chtml?rsetid=14832&alltime=yes&rank=4&tied=0&requesttimeout=9999

got three in the PSA cross over hopper!



BcD

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Posted By: barrysloate

After reading the post above about the Eddie Collins card, and looking at the picture Josh provided, I agree there is no way that is a depiction of him. It barely looks like Jimmy either. I think this is no different than the E97/98 Cy Young card. At some point collectors just have to accept that many of these drawn likenesses look nothing like the player they are supposed to be.

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Posted By: JK

Barry,

My understanding from an old article that I read was that the e93s were not drawings but rather colorized photos. Therefore, the likeness to the players should be somewhat close. Do you know if that accurate or not?

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Posted By: James Feagin

I agree that the color of E93's are outstanding, particularly the Griffith card. However, how many uncut sheets are out there? I've seen two for auction within the past year and there are undoubtedly more which have been cut over the years. I'm quite leery of these blank-back "proofs" which show up on ebay and am equally as hesitant at the more frequent high-grade examples which have surfaced. The dimensions of these cards vary so much as to make it seem suspicious that many examples-graded and otherwise, are sheet-cut.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I have always assumed that every hand drawn card had to be produced with the artist looking at a photograph of the player and basing his rendering on that image. No way an artist created a likeness from memory. Whether it is a colorization of a photo or a recreation of a photo, that I don't know. Good question.

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Posted By: JK

James,

I dont believe that there are as many of these proofs as you may think. I was told that the uncut sheets were all owned by one collector and put on the market close in time to each other - making it appear that there were more than may actually exist. Also, all the cut out blank backed e93s are from one sheet I believe - I have not, for example, seen more than one card of any particular player sold on ebay (though some cards have sold more than once).

Barry,

According Lew Lipset's BB Card Encyclopedia, e93s, 94s, 97s and 98s are all tinted b & w photographs with a colored background.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Josh- thanks for the clarification. So how were T206's made? The portraits were generally borrowed from the Horner cabinets- were they an artist's rendition or just photographs colored over? And how were the action poses done?

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Posted By: steve yawitz

It's one of my favorites too. I'm just over 50 percent into the set. This might be my favorite card - at least so far:



http://imageevent.com/yawie99

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Posted By: Kevin

"As for the blank backs, I dont believe they are considered "proofs." Rather, they seem to have all been hand cut from sheets that did not have printing done on the reverse - I think many dont consider them proofs because there is no evidence of alignment marks on the cards. Maybe the shees were printers scraps - I dont really know. I have a couple and, like Jim B. tend to think they are rarer than what the common belief may be."

_________________________________

Although it doesn't seem to be the case here and I doubt there are any in circulation but blank backs can also be lab created (aka doctored). It’s rather complicated to do and consists of many steps but it is virtually impossible to detect. I’m almost positive grading companies are not aware that this can be done...all but one.

Unfortunately I don't have any examples for the e93 but it has been convincingly accomplished. Now the scary part...it's not just limited to e-cards!

I know many will "demand" to see examples but after years of spending way too much money (and time) doctoring cards in any/every conceivable way just to study the findings, I’ve learned to use inexpensive time-era nonsports cards as examples. This is, of course, after the desired results have been reached on whatever baseball card issue was being worked on first.

Kevin

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Posted By: JK

since the blank back e93s are all handcut and generally sell for less than a similarly conditioned card with a grade (and no trim), I'd say its highly unlikely that any of them are doctored to make them look like blank backs.

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Posted By: paulstratton

If a card has a nice front and some sort of back damage, would making it a blank back increase the value?

I think Kevin should be working for one of the grading companies.

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Posted By: JimB

"However, how many uncut sheets are out there?"

To my knowledge there are two uncut sheet complete sets that are actually cut into strips. Mastro auctioned them both last year and they both came from the same source outside of the hobby. There is also a partial sheet that Goodwin has uctioned twice in the last couple of years. In addition, there is one complete sheet of the entire set which is uncut and is apparently in mint or close to mint condition. It is in an advanced collection and though I have tried a couple of times, I don't think it is moving any time soon.

"I've seen two for auction within the past year and there are undoubtedly more which have been cut over the years. I'm quite leery of these blank-back "proofs" which show up on ebay and am equally as hesitant at the more frequent high-grade examples which have surfaced. "

All of the blank back examples that have been on ebay in the past year came from the lot of 19 that Mastro sold last year. The buyer has simply broken up the lot and resold them. I do not know of any other authentic E93 blank backs. These all came from the source of the uncut sheets and apparently were from a third sheet that at some point in the past 100 years was cut up.

I do not know what frequently surfaced high-grade examples you are referring to. There are barely enough high-grade examples for two complete sets at ex/mt or higher. The second best set may not even have all cards at ex/mt or better. Beyond those two sets there are not many more out there. These high-grade cards have not come from these recent uncut sheets since all of the sheets were blank backed.


JimB

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- I know who has the complete sheet and I agree it will never come up for sale.