reprint wagner piedmonts

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

I posted about the #106 Durocher Mastro sold (with scans) on the other forum. According to the Mastro description, the card came from Woody Gelman. Mastro theorizes in the description that the card came from one of Gelman's contacts at Goudey. If so, it was printed to fill a hole in 1933 before the Lajoie was printed in 1934 - this is my theory. The card does look period. However it looks like there weren't many printed and the printers did a little better job on these Duochers, as there is no "bleed-through" on the example in the Mastro auction. These were probably printed for their collections and/or their friends, so they made sure to have some nicely printed card evidently.

Back to your "Piedmont First" theory. I totall agree with this theory, as I have had the same exact theory for years. We all also know that Piedmont is even MORE PLENTIFUL than any other back, including Sweet Caporal. So, here are some points (along with the back photos above) as to why to reason the Piedmont Wagners were actually printed at a later date than 1909:

1) There should be about twice as many Piedmont Wagners than Sweet Caporal, due to the populations of the two.

2) All Piedmont Wagners are handcut from a sheet.

3) NONE of the Piedmont Wagners' provenance can be traced back before the 1950's!

4) The fronts and backs of the Piedmont Wagners are different (the fronts different from other Wagners with Sweet Caporal backs and the backs different from other Piedmont backs). Again, above is a great example. Also, on the other forum, I even posted the front scan of the PSA 8 Wagner beside a PSA 2 Sweet Caporal Wagner, so members can tell the difference.

5) I have actually seen two Piedmont Wagners (one in person) where the owners BOTH told me they were 1950's reprints. The cards look identical to the ones considered period! Also, I have heard from several collectors over the years about these "1950's Piedmont Wagners".

6) None of these Piedmont Wagners were ever offered as real until the time Mastro bought the PSA 8 in NY. In fact, MANY Hobby publications early on (including Lipset's Encyclopedia) state the Wagner T206 can ONLY be found with a Sweet Caporal 150 back. This was common knowledge early in the Hobby and why the people who printed these used a Piedmont back - so nobody would confuse them with a real one!

People can draw their own conclusions. My opinion will not change. I also know that others' opinions opposite of mine will not change. On this issue, we will have to "agree to disagree" for now, as I don't see any of the Piedmont Wagners owners having the cards tested and aged!

Edited to add my theory on Wagners from the T206 set.

As Ted and I both agree - we believe the Piedmont first (and evidently is was the most popular brand as well). What I believe happened is that, since Piedmont was so popular, their printers were the first to "pull" the Wagner, thus resulting in NO T206 Wagners being issued with a Piedmont back into packs (again, this theory holds no matter when you believe the Piedmont Wagners were printed as all are hand cut and never went into packs, whether they were printed in 1909 or 1950). HOWEVER, evidently the SC factories and printers caught wind of Wagner's request not to be included in the set later and some cards were inserted into packs early on - escaping the factories so to speak.