Low Pop Tolstoi

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Posted By: Jamie

Hi,

I just purchased a T206 Buck Herzog PSA 8 with a Tolstoi back. I paid $2150 for it off ebay, a significant premium to a regular PSA 8, which I think goes for around a thousand bucks. The thinking being that the Tolstoi back is rare and will drive demand for the card.

In fact, it seems to be the only recorded Tolstoi PSA 8 in existence, yet who knows what lays behind the backs of the 1500 or so PSA 8's with unknown backs. Yet the Tolstoi's don't seem to grade out in very good condition. Perhaps it had to do with the packaging, or perhaps they were mainly smoked by russian immigrants who did not care for the cards?

Has anyone ever encountered another PSA 8 T206 with a Tolstoi back? How many do you think are out there?

Thanks,

Jamie

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Posted By: bigfish

Jamie,

Nice card. It is diffiuclt to figure out the pop on common cards because of a variety of reasons. The grading companies did not keep a record of rare backs in the past. I think they just started doing this? Tough to figure. You have a super nice card either way.

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Posted By: Jamie

Thank you, Bigfish, I appreciate the compliments. I am glad to have it. I believe that PSA began recording the backs in around 2006 or earlier.

Jamie

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Posted By: MVSNYC

Hi Jamie- great card...



for years my focus was T206 rare backs...they are tuff to find in high grade. i was collecting PSA 7's, 8's, and even 9's...the highest Tolstoi i think i had was a PSA 7. you have a great card there, sit on it for awhile...



Best-

MS

p.s. probably the tuffest to find in high-grade is Polar Bear (due to the way it was packaged)...i have only ever seen/owned ONE PSA 8, and it's in Barry Sloate's auction (shameless plug, but i don't care)...

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Posted By: Anonymous

Thank you, MS, I do plan to hold onto it for awhile.

I did notice the card in Sloate's auction, however a Google search lead me to another PSA 8 Polar Bear, of Ty Cobb Portrait Red.

http://www.wheretheyaint.com/baseball-cards/T206.htm

Regards,

Jamie

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Posted By: barrysloate

Plug away Michael, plug away.



In my description I stated it was the only Polar Bear to ever receive an 8, but I too question whether that is accurate information. I got it of course off the PSA pop report, but who knows.

Okay, just read Jamie's post. Guess it is not the only one. Maybe I simply read the information wrong. Does anyone else find that the list that breaks down the backs is confusing?

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Posted By: MVSNYC

jamie- i wasn't suggesting that mine was the only PB PSA 8 that existed, merely that i had never seen another one, in my 20 years of collecting...realistically there might be a handful (at most), but unless you have $38,995.00 to spend on that Cobb...Barry's example is the next best thing.

how'd i handle that one Barry?

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Posted By: Sean BH

That is a pretty sharp looking card...you even outbid Don on that one!

Oh that Cravath is a beauty.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Like a pro Michael!

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Posted By: Jamie

I agree. Well handled!

Do you believe that the card may be discounted somewhat due to the fact that Cravath was a minor leaguer?

Thanks,

Jamie

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Posted By: barrysloate

I guess any minor leaguer is worth a bit less than a major leaguer.

But when you get into the exalted PSA 8 area, it's really a matter of who wants it and who's bidding. So if it is perceived as a really tough card, there is no reason to think it might be discounted.

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Posted By: Sean BH

Cravath was more than a minor leaguer...he was the home run champ before some dude named Babe Ruth came around.

If I had some extra money sitting around I would love to pick that one up.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

Jamie- not really...he went on to lead the majors in HR's...plus when you start talking PSA 8's (especially Polar Bear), the fact that he is pictured as a minor leaguer has virtually no negative effect on the price...the economy/card market is why it's low at the moment...



In the words of Mickey (Rocky's trainer): "Get in der 'Rock!"...BID!

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Posted By: Jamie

Wow, thanks for the info guys, that's really interesting about Cravath.

Perhaps this is worthy of a new thread, but how do you think the global economic slowdown is going to effect card prices? Do you think that values might tank? That is one of my concerns. Is it best to hold money in cash right now?

My mother works for Christie's and she says that Christie's and Sotheby's are in a world of trouble. Most of the paintings are failing to meet their estimates, and she almost had a heart attack when I told her I had bought the Tolstoi.

I remember when card values exploded during the internet boom of the late 90's. All these people had a lot of money to throw around (not me). I suppose it's possible now that wallets are tightening, prices could drop considerably.

Do you think it's best to wait a few months?

Thanks,

Jamie

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Posted By: MVSNYC

if you have money, now is actually a great time to buy, when prices are low (sell high, buy low)...

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jamie- all good points, and I was reading the article about the fall painting auctions, too.



No question the downturn is affecting all levels of the economy, but to a different degree. Sotheby's and Christie's are depending on buyers to lay out tens of millions of dollars each for high end paintings. Even the very wealthy may feel that is something they don't want to do right now.



But many of the more affordable vintage baseball cards, say within the $500-2500 range, are not going to break the bank of most collectors. They may be cutting back on their total expenditure, but these purchases are within their reach. I am a bit surprised how well my auction is doing, all things considered. Prices are softer, but there is a steady stream of bids coming in and it's still early in the day.



One of the things Sotheby's and Christie's does is make huge cash guarantees to consignors to get their material, and if these promises were made before the market crash then they are going to lose big time.

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Posted By: Jamie

Managed to win the Cravath! I was freaking out all night until it finally ended, but I'm very, very happy. I may have overpaid a little bit, but I'm very happy with the card. Will keep it for the rest of my life

One thing my mother did say was that as Christie's, the things that were still hitting their estimates were things that were really, truly rare. I'd put the Cravath and the Herzog in that category.

I'm done buying cards for a while

Thanks Barry, appreciate a great auction. Looking forward to receiving the card.

Jamie

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Posted By: MVSNYC

congrats Jamie! wait until you hold it in your hands...it is stunning!

be well,
MS

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Posted By: marty q

hey jamie how about a scan of that tolstoi??? we would love to see it...

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Posted By: Jamie

God, Marty, I'm really sorry, the seller took the picture of off ebay even before I got a chance to save it. I will contact him and see if he still has the scan.

The card itself is already in the safe deposit box, I don't think I could get it out just for that (for a number of logistical reasons).

Thanks,

Jamie

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Posted By: Jim VB

Marty, Jamie,

Herzog/Tolstoi attached. Courtesy of Bobby Binder and VCP.

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Posted By: Jamie

Thank you so much! The seller had deleted his scan.

Cheers,

Jamie