Uncovered the mysteries of T206museum and OM black overprint backs

bond73 · #1 05-10-2009, 10:46 AM

Why did I come out and speak for the mistake now?
I come out to speak now just because I want to SAVE your t206 collections/investments and want to stop further damaging the hobby. After reading most of those posts on this forum regards to t206museum, I can feel the direction going to the wrong way. Some collectors starting to feel all of those player image overprints, ghost image, test strips that shown on t206museum were all bogus. I can swear to God I have only made four OM black overprint backs and that's it PERIOD. All those overprints with player's image or tobacco brand on the front or back are real and they were true printer's scrap from a hundred year ago. Collectors have reasons not to buy any printer's scrap from my collection but if this misconception keeps on spreading to the wrong directions then I believe the t206 oddities market would crashed. This is completely unfair to collectors who love and already own those t206 oddities in their collection (are you listening Dan?). Again, all those cards (except OM black overprint) that you read on t206museum are real, they can be traced down to eBay or Mastro auctions.

Why did I post in this forum as "bond73"?
Again, I don't want to use my real name to promote t206museum. That's why I used "Scott Bob" as an alias to post. I don't want u guys miss out any new info on t206museum. Regards to the last post by "Scott Bob" of "So there are no real t206 overprints, ghost images, miscuts exist? I guess that guy has a printing factory in his basement or something." I was just trying to use a sense of humor hoping someone would step up and say "No, there are real overprints out there but just not those OM black overprints" after I start seeing the whole overprint topic heading to the wrong direction. However, you guys saw my previous post as a remorseful post, anyways, you guys missed my intention and hope you understand now.

Will t206museum go online again?
For the time being, it will remain unavailable since I have to scrub out the 1% incorrect information about the OM black overprint and review the rest of the 99% information making sure they are current, accurate and reflect new information from new discovery etc. I hope the future t206museum can continue serving and educate collectors on t206s in the future. I have helped hundreds of people on t206 questions in the past and hoping to continuously serve collectors again in the future. (By the way, I really need someone to proofreading my crappy English, any volunteer?)

To start out from stop further hurting our beloved hobby and continue doing good thing for the community. I will donate $206 next month to any charity or foundation of board member's choice. It will be donated under the name of Net54baseball Forums.

Thank you for Robert Lifson encourages me to speak up. I am asking forgiveness from all of you. I am deeply sorry and regret of the stupid act that I have done in the past. I can't change the past but I hope I can use my extensive knowledge on t206s to educate more people in the future and make them love this hobby and make the collecting world a better place.

If anyone has further questions, let me know and I will try to answer it.

And now, you guys can continue criticize my stupid act and start making fun of my Inglsih.

Happy Mother's Day!!

Regards,
Patrick Chan, owner of t206museum.com

19cbb · #2 05-10-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

I will donate $206 next month to any charity or foundation of board member's choice. It will be donated under the name of Net54baseball Forums

I don't see the need of using the 'Net54baseball Forums' name...

Peter_Spaeth · #3 05-10-2009, 10:59 AM

"Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive."

barrysloate · #4 05-10-2009, 11:00 AM

Well, it seems like a sincere apology but no question it was a really stupid, and illegal, thing to do.

May I ask what you used to print those overprint lines? What kind of equipment do you have?

Peter_Spaeth · #5 05-10-2009, 11:17 AM

"Why did I consign the Revelle to REA?
First of all, the Revelle was the only other one that left my possession after being graded by SGC. The reason I consigned it to REA was to make their 2009 auction more "completed" after knowing they would have all t206 "Big 4" available in the same auction (which is something never happened before)."

A truly impressive spin.

slidekellyslide · #6 05-10-2009, 11:28 AM

Can we assume that you are the only person behind T206museum.com?

calvindog · #7 05-10-2009, 11:36 AM

"What happen to the Lipe?
It was on eBay solely for showmanship ...."

"Why did I consign the Revelle to REA?
First of all, the Revelle was the only other one that left my possession after being graded by SGC. The reason I consigned it to REA was to make their 2009 auction more "completed" ...."

These are my two favorite lies. Patrick, you really display much altruism towards REA, I'm sure Rob was appreciative of your efforts to make his auction more "completed." And ebay is not a museum, it is a money-making venture, period.

I'd have to agree that you probably should shut your pie-hole at this point and consult a lawyer.

slidekellyslide · #8 05-10-2009, 11:45 AM

Not sure why he would need a lawyer. No charges were brought against him and he's supposedly made restitution. Personally I think this case needed some kind of charges brought. The damage that something like that brings to the hobby deserves harsher penalties than an apology and restitution. The next guy will think he can get away with it too.

nolemmings · #9 05-10-2009, 11:26 AM

while contrition is a good thing, it's a fair question to ask whether you're sorry for what you did or just sorry that you got caught. There is other conduct that you have not explained--how you continued to prop up these fake cards for years, continued to perpetuate their existence and made several false and misleading posts in this forum in attempts to legitimize t206museum. Also, as has been suggested, the creation of these fakes required some extensive planning and rather careful workmanship--it can't be chalked up to a whim (times 4).

Wite3 · #10 05-10-2009, 11:32 AM

I am sorry, I do not buy it...you can apologize all you want and insist on not wanting to defraud anyone or make money but you did and it was most likely illegal...

It just sounds like you are trying to get sympathy for your deceit. I guess I am just less forgiving. These cards have been discussed many times before and you could have come on this board or your own site and said you made them. Years ago!! You didn't...you kept trying to sell them and finally consigned one to a major auction.

Good luck with the Feds!

barrysloate · #11 05-10-2009, 11:34 AM

Here's what really scares me about this whole mess:

I've always wondered if the technology to counterfeit a tobacco era card was possible; could one find paper, ink, and printing plates, for example, to reproduce a T206 and get it past a grader? And the answer was always that it would be impossible to do as it would be readily detected.

Now, with this overprint back getting holdered, as well as a couple of E94 overprints being encapsulated, the wall has been broken. What's stopping someone from creating nearly foolproof Old Puts, or taking a blank backed card such as M101-4/5, and creating a new back variation that no one has ever seen before? If the technology is good enough and it passes the grading test, then who knows what troubles lie ahead.

This could be one of the biggest dangers the vintage card market has ever faced.

Mark · #12 05-10-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Here's what really scares me about this whole mess:

I've always wondered if the technology to counterfeit a tobacco era card was possible; could one find paper, ink, and printing plates, for example, to reproduce a T206 and get it past a grader? And the answer was always that it would be impossible to do as it would be readily detected.

Now, with this overprint back getting holdered, as well as a couple of E94 overprints being encapsulated, the wall has been broken. What's stopping someone from creating nearly foolproof Old Puts, or taking a blank backed card such as M101-4/5, and creating a new back variation that no one has ever seen before? If the technology is good enough and it passes the grading test, then who knows what troubles lie ahead.

This could be one of the biggest dangers the vintage card market has ever faced.

Sounds plausible to me. The only authentic backs will be those that were known to exist prior to new age printing techniques. If this is truly a danger, starting now you type card dudes should buy your Altoona Tribunes and Holmes to Homes and Gimbels cards in holders that were slabbed and numbered a few years ago.

rdwyer · #13 05-10-2009, 11:59 AM

Yes, I robbed a bank. I did it for enjoyment and showmanship. I wanted to remain anonymous because I didn't want anyone asking me for loans. The money was burning a hole in my pocket, that's why I spent it. (Being sarcastic)

For years, I relied on T206museum for information. Now, I have a hard time believing anything that was on the site. I hope this con-artist goes to prison.

bijoem · #14 05-10-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I've always wondered if the technology to counterfeit a tobacco era card was possible; could one find paper, ink, and printing plates, for example, to reproduce a T206 and get it past a grader? And the answer was always that it would be impossible to do as it would be readily detected.

Barry - in my opinion..... it is absolutely possible.

Jim VB · #15 05-10-2009, 12:32 PM

I've been told, often in my life, that my biggest character flaw is that, on some days, I have an unflinching intolerance to ignorance and stupidity.

I guess today is just another one of those days. I'm willing to cut this guy zero slack, apology or not. I want him to go away.

cfc1909 · #16 05-10-2009, 12:36 PM

Pat

this is all very disturbing to me. T206 is my passion and after collecting for many years, I have become very knowledgable about the set. T206 Museum has some good info but it also insults my intelligence. I want to talk to you and not by email. I will be calling you.

JR

Dalkiel · #17 05-10-2009, 01:02 PM

bond73 = Manny Ramirez???

danmckee · #18 05-10-2009, 02:41 PM

Complete bogus garbage. Let's see how many blue gills get hooked by this bait. Chan is dirty, shilled auctions in the past and nothing he says here can make what he did ok.

He did what he did for one reason and one reason only!

To deceive and steal. And when you are caught stealing you should be punished!

I like the bank robbery comparison. If i pay back if i am caught should i walk????

Sorry pat, i have known you too long and you may win over a few saps but you are pure garbage to me and those packs have no chance of holding baseball cards unless you put them in there.

Just my call but i am calling bs on this one.

Sincerely, dan mckee

wonkaticket · #19 05-10-2009, 03:54 PM

Pat,

I have had the liberty of reading many of your private emails in which the lies and deception are as thick as syrup.

This was planned from day one and if the heat hadn�t come the card would have sold in REA you would have used your balance to buy lots in REA. You would have made a trade me with me on the Lipe once we baited you with some great cards from our respective collections. You also would have continued to lie to the owners of the Hart card as you did so many times before.

The only reason you have remorse is the jig is up and you�ve been caught. Like all criminals you feel bad when you get caught.

My advice keep that $206 dollars and put it towards attorney�s fees.

$206 dollars really!

You scam the collecting community for years use this board to hype BS items and services under an assumed name, hint at shilling major auctions and screw collectors out of tens of thousands of dollars. You have collectors trade away their prized possessions for fake cards you made with a rubber stamp to build a collection for yourself on basically stolen material.

And $206 is the number you come up with? Well I guess we are breaking stereotypes here on Net54 I guess not all Asian Americans are good at math I stand corrected.

My favorite line of yours in one of your emails is that you didn�t have access to your collection right now to trade some of those cards back...just like a pirate and a thief you want to hold on to all those great cards your ill gotten booty if you will that you managed to scam from innocent collectors.

Do us and yourself a favor kill the site and disappear into anonymity once again you had no problem being an anonymous before try it again this time without robbing people for you own enjoyment or gain.

P.S. One little word of advice while your dishing out thanks to folks you may want to thank that FBI agent for allowing you to work this out this way�biggest favor you have ever been given!

Marc Simmons · #20 05-10-2009, 04:21 PM

Barry, I think we may have already seen a counterfeit act of creating a 'new back variation' - the glossy Ty Cobb "Ty Cobb, King of the Tobacco World" back. Just that nobody knows for sure?

Wite3 · #21 05-10-2009, 04:34 PM

It has happened other times too...Kendig chocolate backs come to mind...

Joshua

joshr90 · #22 05-10-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Here's what really scares me about this whole mess:

I've always wondered if the technology to counterfeit a tobacco era card was possible; could one find paper, ink, and printing plates, for example, to reproduce a T206 and get it past a grader? And the answer was always that it would be impossible to do as it would be readily detected.

Now, with this overprint back getting holdered, as well as a couple of E94 overprints being encapsulated, the wall has been broken. What's stopping someone from creating nearly foolproof Old Puts, or taking a blank backed card such as M101-4/5, and creating a new back variation that no one has ever seen before? If the technology is good enough and it passes the grading test, then who knows what troubles lie ahead.

This could be one of the biggest dangers the vintage card market has ever faced.

In A World where Corruption and Greed reign Supreme, One grading company Stands Alone.

Fighting for Justice in a world with none left to spare.

This summer, as the biggest, newest scam of the hobby sears into our minds, join our Heroes in the fight against devaluing what we hold dear.

BS grading- Join the Revolution.

Can humanity survive?

Kid's seats still just FIVE BUCKS!

-Josh

danmckee · #23 05-10-2009, 06:32 PM

Come on Barry, you can't be serious??? The fake Nodgrass' the bogus Doyle's and PSA grader at the time Bill Hughes even admitted slabbing the trimmed Wagner.

3rd party grading is a joke amongst hobby veterens.

It was laughed at at the 1991 Aneheim show when PSA first opened and I am still laughing!!!! Orlando is a town clown.

The experts????

I feel very sorry for the people who have invested their trust in 3rd party grading.

A close friend of mine just popped an authentic graded PSA card out and resubmitted and got a 9. His reward will be about $4K. God Bless Him.

Dan Mckee

fkw · #24 05-10-2009, 07:51 PM

Wow!!!

PS. Dan M., did those scans I sent you last month help in this investigation? Hope so, I see they no longer are showing on the older posts from 2005 etc.

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