JSA Story on Autographalert.com

[David Atkatz]

Gee... How did we ever manage before JSA and PSA? Better throw out all I acquired before the enlightenment.

Who says JSA and PSA are experts? Why... JSA and PSA!

(And Barry... we use realtors because realtors have created the system of home buying and selling. They create and have access to the magical listings. Just as, for many, many things, we use lawyers because we let lawyers create the system that makes them necessary.)

[hcv123]

Who says JSA and PSA are experts? Why... JSA and PSA!

(And Barry... we use realtors because realtors have created the system of home buying and selling. They create and have access to the magical listings. Just as, for many, many things, we use lawyers because we let lawyers create the system that makes them necessary.)

Could have quoted any number of comments to start, but this seemed like a good one. IMHO - the self proclaimed "expert authenticators" have created the system that makes them necessary. As much has been said I will try to make a few succinct points (all my opinions of course):

1) Biased intention aside what JSA did here is at least extremely poor business practice and deserves the highest levels of criticism, questions and scrutiny. If this is how they "authenticate", they should be out of the business.

2) I think the model used is a GREAT way to test autograph authenticators - In person signed pieces should be submitted multiple times to the same authenticators after having been submitted to a different authenticator. Throw in some clear forgeries for good measure with a "good" authenticators cert to test in the other direction as well. Develop some needed percentage of accuracy to be a "certified" authenticator - hey a whole new business model - authenticate the authenticator.

3) Chris Morales has deservedly no respect from any educated collector

4) Caveat Emptor - Like any purchase it is up to the individual to educate him/herself to a level of comfort to make the purchase. If you rely completely on others (who have not earned that trust) then you will likely be burned at some point.

5) PSA has some well deserved criticism here as well - just heard from a friend who cracked a "6" resubmitted and received an "8" - "objective grading standards"? - Not so much!

6) A) Buy the card not the holder. B) Buy the autograph not the cert/opinion!

7) It is too bad that all of this "3rd party" involvement is not at a higher standard as I strongly believe many who could have been active hobby participants have been "burned away".




-Howard Chasser

[Leon]

Tomorrow morning, any post in this thread that does not have a full first and last name, will have one put in the post. Either edit out ya'lls comments, put your name in your post, or I will do it for you tomorrow. Please remember the rules. I really don't care if you say stuff but you have to put your name by it. Any questions, let me know. It's all in the rules. I am not playing favorites or protecting any one or anything.... thanks

edited to say if you are only making a general comment about autographs or the hobby, not about anyone or any company, then your name doesn't have to be in the post.....again, it's all in the rules.

[FUBAR]

Jim Drysdale

Ok, here is my opinion.... i read the story and it just confirms to me not to go anywhere near anything Coach's Corner. If you read the story and think it paints Coach's Corner in a good light, you can't see the forest for the trees.

The only mistake JSA did was, the didn't back anything Morales.. period.. would any other person on here that has posted, back anything Morales said ... cause im calling Bull Sh*t if you say you would still buy the item!

If I seen an autograph i really wanted and i thought it was real... but then seen the CC, Stat COA, You could tell i was walking away because i would be getting smaller!

I trust three professional people's opinions- JSA, PSA/DNA, and Richard Simon.

[J.McMurry]

Lots of good comments made by many.

imo, Just as the "casual fan" has tainted modern baseball, the "casual collector/impulse buyer/investor" has tainted the sports collector hobby.

[GrayGhost]

JSA, PSA/DNA are the two "Gold standards". I wonder, as some have said, If advertising and promotion as well as knowledge and education makes it the reason? I see some on here like David and Richard, whose opinions, along w Kevin Keating, Jim Stinson and others who may not be the "big two", but have greate reputations, I would trust.

In the end, its all an OPINION. I think the buyer of the sig needs to do his own research and make informed decisions. I wish it was that simple, but stories like this one put a sour taste too. In the end, if you don't "feel right", don't invest a lot of money in a sig, no matter who authenticated it. That has to be the solution

Scott Roberts

[thetruthisoutthere]

It's an enormous advantage to be knowledgeable about autographs. I will admit that I have picked up some early Jeter autographs for a great price because I know exactly what to look for. But when it comes to autographs I always look at the autograph FIRST. I don't care who certed it or who produced it; I look at the autograph first. I wonder how many Jeter collectors own the "1998 Topps Co-Signers" autograph cards that contain the autographs of Derek Jeter/Scott Rolen or the card that contains the Derek Jeter/Eric Karros autographs. Most collectors don't realize that a number of the "Masters (the unsigned ones)" of those cards were backdoored and then the autographs of Jeter, Rolen and Karros were forged on those cards. Those cards have the Topps "Certified Autograph Issue" stamped on them. To collectors who don't know autographs they will just assume they have a Jeter/Rolen or Jeter/Karros autograph card because it came from Topps. But they are obvious forgeries. Below is a photo of the Jeter/Rolen forgeries on one of those masters.

JeterRolenFake.jpg

[Vintagedegu]

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[hcv123]

Originally Posted by FUBAR

Jim Drysdale

Ok, here is my opinion.... i read the story and it just confirms to me not to go anywhere near anything Coach's Corner. If you read the story and think it paints Coach's Corner in a good light, you can't see the forest for the trees.

The only mistake JSA did was, the didn't back anything Morales.. period.. would any other person on here that has posted, back anything Morales said ... cause im calling Bull Sh*t if you say you would still buy the item!

If I seen an autograph i really wanted and i thought it was real... but then seen the CC, Stat COA, You could tell i was walking away because i would be getting smaller!

I trust three professional people's opinions- JSA, PSA/DNA, and Richard Simon.

While I agree, there is no good conclusion to be drawn from the story re: Coah's corner et al. I STRONGLY disagree with your statement "the only mistake JSA did was....." - IMO the primary mistake that JSA made was looking at ~8 items which he certified as good and 2nd time around certified them as bad - At best one would have to question how qualified he is to authenticate autographs - at worst - agree with the post and accept that he didn't even look at the signatures second trip - only the coa that accompanied it - an irresponsible/inexcusable busniess practice as an authenticator. imho.

-Howard Chasser

[steve B]

Originally Posted by hcv123

While I agree, there is no good conclusion to be drawn from the story re: Coah's corner et al. I STRONGLY disagree with your statement "the only mistake JSA did was....." - IMO the primary mistake that JSA made was looking at ~8 items which he certified as good and 2nd time around certified them as bad - At best one would have to question how qualified he is to authenticate autographs - at worst - agree with the post and accept that he didn't even look at the signatures second trip - only the coa that accompanied it - an irresponsible/inexcusable busniess practice as an authenticator. imho.

-Howard Chasser

I don't see it as a bad business practice to reject out of hand the opinion of someone who makes a living approving bad stuff.

It is probably a bad business practice to justify charging for that rejection by listing reasons. Although maybe not since a rejection simply saying "Fake because it's got a Morales cert" even at no charge will probably draw a lawsuit.

In any field there's people whose opinion is respected, some worthy some not. There are also people who deserve little or no respect for their opinions. And that usually happens because they have a proven track record of having no knowledge of the subject or of being wrong.

Ask me anything about repairing bicycles. I'll probably have a solid answer. And I've got repeat customers who apparently think so too.

Ask me about the certs I made for the diamonds I found in my road side garden. I know they're good, even if I did find them near that broken bottle. And I'll bet your dastardly local jewler will have a good laugh as he tells you they're just broken glass.

Steve Birmingham

[David Atkatz]

Nonsense. They had already certified those autographs as being genuine! Since they seem to render judgments without looking at the autograph, on what basis do you suppose they approved them the first time around?