Pennant collectors

[lefty147]

I had emailed the seller to asked if it was the same pennant and they said it was. They said the previous winner did not pay so it was being listed again. Mike

[thetahat]

Mike,

The response you got was not quite accurate. I was actually the winner on the '20 Dodgers pennant (and an underbidder on the Indians pennant). I paid for it, received it two Saturdays ago, and immediately returned it for a refund (which could only be given if pennant not as described/pictured). I can prove this to anyone if need be. Pennant was not accurately pictured and some flaws were left out. Significant fade to the felt on the front, it is much lighter than the back which doesn't quite show up in the pictures. In the pictures the shade looks about the same on both sides but that isn't true. Pennant is also very thin in the upper left corner, especially around the Y and N in Brooklyn, hold it to the light and it is almost like Kleenex. There's also wear to the wide end edge by the top. The bottom tassel is partially disconnected from the grommet leaving a fairly large hole. Also the faded fibers were kinda loose and shedding off the front. It is authentic in my opinion and very old, maybe not back to 1920 but perhaps from a very old Hall of Fame series or something. Had I known these other flaws I likely would still bid on it but nowhere near what I actually did, not even close. I saw the re-posting and noticed that it is the same description with no revision. That's unfortunate.

Lastly, yes, I was the one who started this thread, I wanted to see peoples' objective thoughts and didn't want anyone to hold back so as to not want to break any bad news to me.

[lefty147]

Thanks for the information on it.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by lefty147

I had emailed the seller to asked if it was the same pennant and they said it was. They said the previous winner did not pay so it was being listed again. Mike

Why didn't the seller just offer the underbidder a second chance?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Why didn't the seller just offer the underbidder a second chance?

Perhaps he did, and it was declined. I almost always pass on the "second chance offers". It is a flaw in ebay's sytem. You should not have to pay your max bid, if the top bid is withdrawn. You should only pay the next increment above bidder #3. The second chance thing is generally a rip-off.

I bet that more than half of the "second chance offers" are actually declined.

[perezfan]

Bottom line... these pennants were 100% authentic and legit. But the various flaws were not properly disclosed (especially for such high-end pieces).

Could be one of three reasons...

1. The seller didn't know "squat" about vintage pennants (and what pennant collectors would look for in terms of condition).

2. Seller had an intent to deceive, and thus realize a higher price.

3. A combination of points 1 and 2. This is my guess.

[thetahat]

Mark, it was probably more #1 than #2. For example, the picture not accurately representing the fading was likely a matter of lighting when the pictures were taken. Also you can't see how thin/worn it is in the corner unless you hold it to the light; it is still whole but it is very fragile. I guess the troubling part was the re-posting with the exact same description - no mention of these additional flaws - and then replying to someone that the buyer never paid for the item. That's just a flat out untruth.

Greg

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Bottom line... these pennants were 100% authentic and legit.

Do you think these were issued by a commercial manufacturer at the time of the world series' named on the pennants? If so, what's the evidence for that?

[Hankphenom]

So the original winner saved himself $1,200 the second time around on the same pennant. Can someone renege on his bid and then bid again when the item is relisted? I think not, so what's going on here? Actually, the seller would have done much better to offer a second chance to any of the four highest bidders the first time, all of whom bid at least $200 higher than the relisting closed for.
Everybody still think these pennants and their handling has been on the up and up? And I'm still waiting for the answers to my questions above.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=330670384973

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1920-Brookly...item4cfcf20873

[perezfan]

These things never do as well the second time around. Especially when the second occurance happens right after the first. As to exact date that these were issued, we may never know. The style, materials, felt and printing are all commensurate with known examples of the 1920s era.

This Brooklyn pennant was exposed and returned for being in far worse condition than originally portrayed by the seller. I bid on it the first time around, but stayed far away the second time (after Greg described its real condition). I would take the word of a collector vs. an ebay seller any day. Especially a seller that doesn't specialize in sports collectibles. He either failed to disclose the flaws due to not knowing what collectors look for, or had an intent to deceive. Perhaps a little of both...

It looks like Greg got it again, but for a price commensurate with its actual condition. A decent buy, the second time around... even in rough shape. I'm pretty sure that Greg will come on here to confirm his thoughts/strategy.

[Hankphenom]

There was no reneging here, the original buyer returned it due to condition issues. I had forgotten his post to that effect, and apologize for jumping to my conclusions and involving that buyer in my misimpressions. I still find much of the activity surrounding these pennants puzzling, and I am yet to be convinced they are truly vintage to the events depicted.
Hank Thomas

[lefty147]

The bidder did not renege on the the first auction. It was paid for and just returned to the seller as not described properly as in the post earlier. I guess if the seller didn't offer a second chance offer to the under bidders and re-lists it than whatever happens happens. If they didn't block the original winner from bidding how can they stop them from winning again ? I would imagine the seller is probably not very happy but it was out there for everyone to bid on-- again. Although I have no evidence, I agree with Mark the they are authentic and not homemade. This particular 1920 Dodger one is not the the first to surface. Mike

[Tigerden]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Perhaps he did, and it was declined. I almost always pass on the "second chance offers". It is a flaw in ebay's sytem. You should not have to pay your max bid, if the top bid is withdrawn. You should only pay the next increment above bidder #3. The second chance thing is generally a rip-off.

I bet that more than half of the "second chance offers" are actually declined.

+1. I have never accepted the second chance offer for this very reason.