What's an autograph, anyway?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

An "autograph" is anything written in the person's own hand. It does not have to be (or contain) a signature. Hence the autographic designations:

A.L. Autograph Letter (letter in the person's hand, no signature)
A.L.S. Autograph Letter Signed (letter in the person's hand, with signature)
A.D. Autograph Document (document in the person's hand, no signature)
A.D.S. Autograph Document Signed (document in the person's hand, with signature)
A.M. Autograph Manuscript (manuscript in the person's hand, no signature)
A.M.S. Autograph Manuscript Signed (Manuscript in the person's hand, with signature)

That return address cut is at least an A.D., and some would call it an A.D.S. That Washington cut is a piece of an A.D.

Interesting. Where did you find this?

What about initials? I don't know the legal difference as to why I have to initial certin parts of a document and then sign my full name at the end, but are intitials an autograph?

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Interesting. Where did you find this?

these are standard terms. They've been in use by autograph collectors and dealers for well over 150 years. There are many others; e.g.,

D.S. Document Signed (document in hand of another, or printed, but signed by person in question.)
L.S. Letter Signed (letter in hand of another, signed by person in question.)
T.L.S. Typed Letter Signed
I.S.P. Inscribed Photo Signed

etc.

[Exhibitman]

Or the ever-popular Roach's Corner version: "P.O.S."

[mighty bombjack]

I'm sure many of you saw this Addie Joss postcard in the last oldjudge auction. Here is an example (if authentic) of a player writing his last name in reference to his son. In any way an autograph?

http://www.oldjudge.com/auction/auto...ost-cards/235/

[David Atkatz]

I don't mean to sound too harsh, but have you been listening? "Autograph" is not synonymous with "signature."

Yes, the postcard is an autograph of Joss.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

I don't mean to sound too harsh, but have you been listening? "Autograph" is not synonymous with "signature."

Yes, the postcard is an autograph of Joss.

Wow, I never saw this auction. This is absolutely the real deal. Fulton St. was Addie Joss' residence in Toledo in 1907. What a scarce and tremendous piece! Thanks for posting this...

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Wow, I never saw this auction. This is absolutely the real deal. Fulton St. was Addie Joss' residence in Toledo in 1907. What a scarce and tremendous piece! Thanks for posting this...

Yeah, I thought about going after it, but had no idea it would break 10K.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

I don't mean to sound too harsh, but have you been listening? "Autograph" is not synonymous with "signature."

Yes, the postcard is an autograph of Joss.

You don't sound harsh. However, I am more interested in opinions, a la what someone who collects would accept in their collection.

I do have to ask, by your standard, anything written in someone's hand is their autograph? They don't even have to write their name?

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

You don't sound harsh. However, I am more interested in opinions, a la what someone who collects would accept in their collection.

I do have to ask, by your standard, anything written in someone's hand is their autograph? They don't even have to write their name?

In my view, any form of someone writing their name could be seen as an autograph. It could be block letters, script... Whatever. The key is they are identifying themselves.

The Joss item in my view is not an autograph. Writing someone else's name -- even if part of it coincides with your own -- is not an autograph IMO.

I would gladly take the joss item to own his writing, but I don't think I could fool myself into thinking it was his autograph.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

I do have to ask, by your standard, anything written in someone's hand is their autograph? They don't even have to write their name?

None of what I posted is "my view." They are the long-accepted (probably 200 years or so) standards of autograph dealers and collectors.