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#1
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Lee Behrens
Another thread has me asking this question. |
#2
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
i had a lot of trimmed cards a few years back(including a green Ty Cobb T206) that I sold to a dealer who told me he would sell them as altered cards. |
#3
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Anson
This is where I feel that grading companies ARE the best option. By getting cards graded as "authentic", it will authenticate the card but also point to the fact that the card probably has been altered. You can still sell the cards for something and, at the very least, know that you're being honest with potential buyers. The future buyer COULD crack the cards out of the holders and try to sell them raw. However, it would be a little more difficult and risky for them to do so. |
#4
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Lee Behrens
Gee, That is quite ethical. If you can't get the right prescription from one doctor, just keep going to one until you find one that will. Heck, you can always go to PRO. |
#5
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: T206Collector
I too use only use SGC for the same reasons. I only collect T206 cards, and when I get a trimmed one back from SGC, I keep the tag and always provide it if I sell the card again. I treat trimmed cards as filler cards in my collection. Even if it has no creases and sharp corners, I consider a good condition replacement as an upgrade. |
#6
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Seth B.
Having read this board for some time, there seem to be an enormous amount of trimmed cards out there. We, obviously, would all rather die than cut a card (except for one poster a few weeks back). When were these cards trimmed? Are there still evil do'ers today who will take a pair of scissors to a scuffed T-206? Do you think any e-bay sellers/scammers are actively trimming cards? Or was this the fashionable thing to do in collecting in the 60's or earlier? |
#7
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Rhett Yeakley
I personally don't have a big issue with trimmed cards, as long as they are presentable. I have never really understood the mentality in the hobby that if something is slightly trimmed that it is completely worthless. I have seen cards that would be minimally NRMT, except they are 1/32 to 1/16" short go for less than cards graded a 1-2 that look like they have been run over by a Mack truck. Personally there are some great looking "trimmed and worthless" cards out there that I wouldn't mind having in my personal collection. Of course this is my opinion, |
#8
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Posted By: Bryan
I have a couple of trimmed cards I want to get graded. Well basically I want them in a case. I know PSA and GAI encases graded cards as "authentic." Has anyone done this? How do you submit the cards and tell them you only want the card authenticated, not graded due to the trimming? I just don't want them sending the cards back to me telling me the cards are altered which I already knew. Or do PSA and GAI automatically assign an "authentic" grade to vintage cards that are trimmed? |
#9
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Posted By: Anson
I would guess some of both. Early on, many candy issues were trimmed down to T206 size for storage reasons. However, as the prices of both tobacco and candy issues have skyrocketed, many folks are trying to get every last penny out of their cards. If a razor or pair of scissors can make a substantial difference, many will take the chance. |
#10
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Dan Koteles
Only if you are going to collect them for fillers and can be happy with that ,that aspect is fine, who knows this but you??? |
#11
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Posted By: JimB
I think most of the trimming probably happened in the '80s and early '90's by greedy, unethical dealers trying to make a few extra bucks. I doubt that much trimming goes on today since the vast majority of it would be caught by one of the three big grading companies and most cards of significant value get graded before they are sold- at least in public forums like Ebay where most of the scammers hang out. |
#12
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: cmoking
These three E92 cards are graded trimmed by GAI. Can anyone tell they are trimmed from the scans? If they were not in GAI holders, would it be easy to pass it on as a unaltered card? (No worries, I own the card, and I'm not selling them nor am I taking them out of the case). |
#13
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Elliot
The trimming is pretty obvious on the Bergen and McLean. On the Lajoie, it could be passed off as a bad scan. I think more than one edge is trimmed, but the bottom border of the Bergen could give you seasickness. |
#14
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: cmoking
I agree the Mclean is obvious. On the Bergen - if someone evened off the bottom right and the upper left to make it smooth, would you be able to tell from the size of the card based on a scan? |
#15
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: jay behrens
Lower left corner wear isn't kosker on Lajoie. SPotted that right away. |
#16
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#17
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: cmoking
Jay, thanks for the comments....I'm learning. |
#18
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Posted By: T206Collector
I think your card is trimmed at the top. It looks unevenly cut. |
#19
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: jay behrens
round corners are an easy way to tell if some trimming was done. Instead of nice smooth wear on the corner, it makes an abrupt angle where the trimming as done. |
#20
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Posted By: T206Collector
...I've seen a few examples of trimmed cards being offered. Here's one without any suggestion that it might be trimmed, when it is pretty clear to me. The edges are not straight, this card was cut with scissors. |
#21
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: T206Collector
...though it is a bit harder to tell. I would bet the top of this one has been shaved. |
#22
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Dan Koteles
theses cards do not look bad and are okay as long as you are happy. |
#23
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Posted By: cmoking
Dan, I bought my cards already graded as Authentic by GAI. I was ok with that as I was happy with the card looked and the price seemed right. But I am still interested to see how one detects or suspects a card has been trimmed. Looking at the Lajoie in person, I would say the bottom left corner is not as suspicious as the left side. It's hard to see in a 2-D scan, but the bottom left corner looks more robust when the card is tilted and one can see the corner dead on (or as dead on as possible when it is in a case). But the left edge has some raised areas that looks like it was due to cutting. I don't think that comes through in the scan. |
#24
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
I'd be happy to purchase trimmed N172 cards so long as the ad bottom is still present. I guess I'd accept the cards with the ad trimmed off if there was a greater discount. As long as the card is original, that's what counts. Rebacked OJs would be fine as long as it is tastefully or professionally done. What really intrigues me are cards that I've had for 20+ years that are short but don't have the appearance of being trimmed (rounded corners or they have even wear throughout the card). |
#25
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Chris Mc
How about Obak premiums? Most I have seen have just the oval player cut from the cabinet. I would take one of those gems in a second! |
#26
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: steve k
<<< round corners are an easy way to tell if some trimming was done. Instead of nice smooth wear on the corner, it makes an abrupt angle where the trimming as done. >>> |
#27
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: pete
I'd buy a trimmed card if it wasnt too bad or obviously at an angle...I don't think I'd buy a trimmed card if it went through the name of the player or any part of an advertisement on the front. |
#28
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: tbob
I have heard the same thing regarding SGC and GAI not authenticating cards but at the National, both were doing it for trimmed or altered (color addition) cards, so I assume they are doing the same thing with their mail in submissions. |
#29
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: jay behrens
I'd like to see one of these non-trimmed cards that has a rounded corner that abruptly angles. I've never seen one, and I've handled a lot of cards. Not as many as some, but more than most. I've need a seen a card look like this that was not trimmed. |
#30
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Frank Evanov
My latest response from PSA was that they will no longer authenticate trimmed cards. The only exception is hand cut cards from strips, panels, boxes etc. With those cards, if the cut exceeds the visible border, an "authentic" grade will be assigned. |
#31
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Wesley
We all have different preferences and mine is different than tbob's on this issue. I would take an ugly PSA 1 or SGC 10 over a nicer looking altered card any day of the week. |
#32
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: tbob
Wes- that's what makes the world go 'round |
#33
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Daniel Bretta
The only reason I can think of as to why the grading companies won't slab a trimmed card and label it authentic is because they hope that the card will continue to be resubmitted. They make more money in the long run. |
#34
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Richard
Since the grading companies take your money anyways when a card is trimmed, they SHOULD slab the card and label it "authentic - trimmed". Afterall, you already paid for the plastic slab and the encasing service! |
#35
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Daniel Bretta
It's ridiculous. They'll slab a card that has a billion creases, pin holes, paper loss, et cetera, but they won't slab a trimmed card??? |
#36
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: jay behrens
It's always been my contention too that if they are going to reject holdering a card for trimming or other problems, then a portion of the fee needs to be refunded since they didn't have to go to the trouble and expense of slabbing the card. If they are going to keep all the money, then they ned to be slabbing the card. |
#37
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
Lee, |
#38
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Lee Behrens
Jim, |
#39
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Jim Crandell
Lee, |
#40
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: cmoking
"4)I do not feel PSA is as good a grader as PSA" |
#41
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Posted By: Jim Crandell
Good catch--change made. |
#42
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Bill Kasel
I think trimmed cards are a great way for the collectors like myself working from a very limited budget to get more expensive cards at a discount. I care more for the images and players than I do the edges. I don't plan on selling any of my trimmed cards, but if I did it would obviously be noted. Here's a neat example I picked up for under $30 with obvious trimming. |
#43
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: FYS
"6)Why then do I use PSA??I am a set collector in 8 or better |
#44
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Posted By: Chris Counts
About two years ago I picked up a lot of about 20 Diamond Stars off eBay. They were sold as trimmed and I paid less than $5 a card. On a whim, I recently showed about 10 of them to a grader at a card show (he was from GAI) and he only rejected one of them. |
#45
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: steve k
Jay - Take a look at the thread of Hal's t206 Wagner which has a picture. We might not be communicating right about what is an "abrupt angle" but at the top left corner there is sort of an "abrupt angle" slightly towards the top edge. Perhaps when you meant "abrupt angle" it would look different than this. But obvious trimming is easy to spot - what is tough is spotting a "professional" trimmed job. |
#46
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Posted By: jay behrens
we are talking about 2 completely different things. The abrupt angle I am refering to is when a card shows wear on a corner and all of the sudden, instead of sonsistant wear, you get a sharp, clean angle off the worn corner. There is no such angle on Hal's card. I am not talking about random angles in radom places on the card. I am talking specfically about the corners. I've never seen a card with this type of angle occur naturally. It has always been because of trimming. |
#47
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: steve k
<<< instead of sonsistant wear, you get a sharp, clean angle off the worn corner. >>> |
#48
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
FYS, |
#49
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Posted By: John
I don’t think FYS underestimated you or even implied to underestimate you Jim. He asked a question, why would it be harder have they had less of those cards submitted, or are they less generous with the grades? |
#50
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Trimmed Cards
Posted By: Jim Crandell
SGC has had a lot fewer cards submitted to them than PSA and it would be extremely difficult to build an SGC 88 set for most of what I collect because of this. |
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