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#1
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anson
I know many of you have stated your opinion on cutting up vintage uniforms, bats, pants, etc to add to new baseball card sets. While it's been out of hand for quite a few years, there's a new trend that bothers me a bit. |
#2
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: DJ
As a person who purchased over 50 of Ty Cobb's check stubs (I suppose Ty writing "gas bill $9.65" is rather obscure), something in Ty's writing itself perhaps allows that person to get "something" handwritten by a legend without forking over a large sum of money for a signature. As long as the piece is honest and not a forgery, why not milk it and give a collector a chance to own a very small piece of history that may mean something to that person. After all, some people find a one inch swatch of a jersey to their liking or a piece of baseball bat. |
#3
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: t206King
I think your right 100%, these companies have buctchered the hobby with these stupid cards. i have some examples of rediculous cards, they have come out with!!!!!!! |
#4
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: t206King
cards have autographs from beautiful peices, these companies buy jerseys and checks just to cut them up. why dont they insert a winning ticket saying you won a signed check buy johnson or a signed ball buy ty cobb, and have the person with the card pay for the shipping? i think that would be alot better then these crappy examples of history. |
#5
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Chris Mc
How do you market band aids if your Johnson and Johnson? You put Nemo or Barbie on it and some shine. It's nothing more than one uping in the card market. "I have a limited edition", "I have a refractor", "well I have cut pants", "cut sig", etc.............What's next, D.N.A.,hair samples,come on , enough is enough. |
#6
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anonymous
. |
#7
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anson
Ted, you make a very valid point. I guess I'm just a little upset that a simple cancelled check is being clipped and divided in pieces to extract every penny possible. It certainly is the right of the owner to do so if they wish. I just find it silly and a little slimy. I think checks are a neat piece of memoribilia, as are some cut signatures. However, to sell the other pieces of the check after the signature is already clipped away seems a little tacky. |
#8
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Chris Mc
The worst thing about the cut signatures cards pictured here is the fact that the signatures were cut to fit the card. Who cares about the about the modern piece of crap cardboard they are on,they cut up the cut signatures. |
#9
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anonymous
-- |
#10
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
I'll never understand "cutting up" documents, checks and contracts for the sole purpose of making a buck. The sellers of these cards should just offer "redemption" cards. If the winner really wants the piece (lets say a Wagner check or full cut, not something cut down to fit a card) they can spend $10 to have it shipped to them. If they don't want it then it's a free market, they can sell it to someone else that would like it. I realize that this may actually cost the card manufacturers a little more money but wouldn't they rather be known as providers of highly desireable memorabilia rather than buthchers of history? |
#11
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
I guess my last post pretty much is the same opinion as King's (above). |
#12
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: t206King
i emailed upper deck, and have gotten stupid reasons for having these cards. i asked why are some autographs in pencil etc etc. how can you garantee authentication? to me some of the autographs on the cards look fake to be honest......., and also Topps with there buck herzog bats, and joe tinker bats. i think its just one bat taken apart to be honest. these companies i think cover it up by buy 1 or 2 items publicly so that it looks like there all authentic |
#13
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anonymous
its pathetic how Upper Deck screwed up on the Eddie Plank Cut Auto. they put a Eddie Plank signature who played in the 1970's on the card intended for the Eddie Plank who died in 1926, and the Eddie Plank who died in 1926, they out his signature on the Eddie Plank who played in the 1970's. i can't believe how they could have done that !! |
#14
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anson
Nope, UD plain ol' cut the signatures up. Here's another example I found on Ebay. Unless it wraps around the back, poor Charlie lost half his name. |
#15
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: jay behrens
I think that's Lou's cousin, Charles Gehrig that signed that one. |
#16
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: .
, |
#17
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Bryan
Cutting up a Charlie Gehringer signature isn't the worst thing in the world. They are not that hard to come across. However cutting up a signature that is much more rare is downright wrong. But it does beg the question, who really wants a partial Charlie Gehringer signature anyways? It really does make you think about the mentality of the new card collector. Some seem to rather have a numbered card with a "ickey Mant" signature than an actual full Mickey Mantle autograph at a fraction of the price. |
#18
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anson
So, is it only ok to cut up signatures that aren't that hard to find? I understand what you're saying but it's not responsible to hack things up, just to fit on a card. Yes, who would want half of a Gehringer signature. I would enjoy a full one, as "The Mechanical Man" was one of the most underrated complete players of the prewar era. I know his autographs are plentiful but it's just tacky to cut off the autos. |
#19
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Bryan
I didn't say it was ok nor do I agree with it but if they are going to hack them up hopefully they will stick with the easier to find signatures and leave the rare ones in tact. Personally I don't understand why anyone would want that card in their collection. |
#20
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: T206King
EXACTLY!!!!!!!! upper deck and the rest of them should learn |
#21
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anonymous
Donross ( i think ) spent $264 000 on a Ruth home jersey to cut up for their cards. i think read somewhere that there is only 3 or 4 in existance...? |
#22
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: BigHurleyHick
<<why dont they insert a winning ticket saying you won a signed check buy johnson or a signed ball buy ty cobb, and have the person with the card pay for the shipping? i think that would be alot better then these crappy examples of history.>> |
#23
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Bryan
I thought the bat Babe Ruth leaned on while giving his speach is owned by Bob Feller and has been on display in his museum in Iowa. |
#24
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anson
Yes, that was my understanding as well. |
#25
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Cobby33
In answer to who would want a "cut up" piece of history inserted in a card, I would- and so would a plethora of other game-used collectors. I think owning a piece of baseball history beats the heck out of knowing that it is being displayed on some overly-wealthy person's mantle or in their closet. What's wrong with that? |
#26
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: zach
It seems almost greedy to me, that many would rather see a Ruth jersey cut up in hundreds of pieces and spread over hundreds of people than see it intact in a safe place being taken care of. Its kinda like since I can't own the whole jersey than it should be cut up so I can own a sliver of it. I don't see a random piece of cut up fabric as a piece of history but the whole item I do. |
#27
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Adam Smith
Usually, when jerseys or bats were in the hands of a collector, no one saw them anyway. If a jersey or bat is just socked away in someone's closet for the past 25 years, what difference does it make? Instead of having one selfish collector hide the piece forever in his clost, why not allow more people with the opportunity to enjoy it? The average collector doesn't necessarily have $50,000-$100,000 to spend on a game-used jersey, so these items provide an opportunity for them to get a piece, however small it is, of a historic game-used items. There is nothing wrong with that. |
#28
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: davidcycleback
I see nothing wrong with collecting refractors, hot prospect rookie cards and Hall of Famer signed insert cards, but these cards where a large potion of the signature is cut off is about the most moronic thing I've seen in the hobby in years. I don't understand the mentality of somone who pays premium $$ for one of these. I agree with those who say that if the signature is too large for the card, make a large card and insert a redemption card in the pack. If anything, a jumbo signature card would be cooler. |
#29
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: zach
"Instead of having one selfish collector hide the piece forever in his clost" |
#30
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Cobby33
Unless Donruss (which has lost its MLBPA license anyway) or Upper Deck or what not steals the subject jersey or bat or whatever item from you personally, why object to those who do want that 1"x1" piece of history in their collection? Doesn't the value of a collector's satisfactionin having one of these pieces outweigh the "moral" or "ethical" values of those who object to game-used memorabilia? Nobody is getting hurt or ripped off, are they? |
#31
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Adam Smith
These wealthy collectors, who for year hoard the important bats and jerseys, now have to compete with card companies who can bid as much or more for these items. I think it is great that card manufacturers are giving average collectors an opportunity to own a part of history. This is a very popular area of modern collecting and there are a lot of collectors who collect game-used memorabilia cards. Knowing that many people can now enjoy and own a piece of baseball history is certainly better than knowing that only a handful of wealthy collectors hide these pieces for decades at a time. |
#32
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Bryan
Ok let's break this down. A size 44 Rawlings jersey is approximately 1,200 square inches. That would mean 1,200 jersey cards are made and initially 1,200 people get to "enjoy" the destroyed jersey. |
#33
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Adam Smith
The answer to your question would depend on a number of follow-up question. Answer me this: |
#34
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anonymous
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#35
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Adam Smith
Let's get serious here. No one really thinks that someone purchases a Babe Ruth jersey "to preserve for future generations" do they? The person who buys the Babe Ruth jersey buys the item for the same reason a smaller collector buys a 1933 Goudey card. And this is the same exact reason the even smaller collector buys packs in hopes of finding a card with a piece of Babe Ruth's jersey. We buy only to hoard, not to consume, not to share, not to give. just for the sole purpose of saying we've got one. |
#36
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Bryan
Why are you even on a vintage card message board if you don't understand the importance of keeping history in tact? |
#37
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Adam Smith
Do you have the word history confused with the words artifact or object? |
#38
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Bryan
Artifacts are history and history is in artifacts. |
#39
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anonymous
Upper Deck should just rip up jerseys of players who are still playing, because ripping up Ruth jerseys is stupid. like someone posted earlier, once its gone, its GONE. what a waste of a piece of history. |
#40
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Joann
Bryan, |
#41
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: t206King
no. you dont have historical artifacts if they are destroyed. its like having a 1970 HEMI cuda. intact worth 100K or more, in peices not worth a hole lot. Mr. Mastro of Mastronet said in an article " see this ruth bat card, it went for $65,000 now see the ruth bat this went for $65,000. you could buy a bat for what they paid for it!!!!". and its true. alot of the collectors dont collect them because they liek them. they collect them for the book value. if a walter johnson jersey card was issued and worth 2 dollars, know one would collect them. |
#42
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: t206King
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#43
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: t206King
stupid companies |
#44
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Bryan
Joann, |
#45
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Joe Jones
Great points Bryan. |
#46
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anonymous
<<I thought the bat Babe Ruth leaned on while giving his speach is owned by Bob Feller and has been on display in his museum in Iowa.>> |
#47
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Bryan
Interesting. Thanks for that piece of info. |
#48
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: cmoking
What if when the guy sold it, he sold it for less than $37,000? WHat is the tax implication then? |
#49
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: BigHurleyHick
I apologize for not having a scanner but I used my digital camera to get the article online. It might be a little hard to read if your eye sight isn't great. I put it on 2 web pages due to the glare making part of the article unreadable in certain spots so that way it is in a different spot for the 2 pictures of it. |
#50
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Clipping up history - a bit O/T
Posted By: Anson
I'm sure UD would have bought it and chopped it up for many pack busters to "enjoy". Let's be real, even though game-used jersey cards, bat cards, pant cards, hat cards, etc...are the draw towards many of the new products, it's more of a gambling bug than a true desire to own something. |
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