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#1
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield
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#2
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Posted By: barrysloate
When the first series of 150 came out, they were a novelty and were handled by many people. By the time the 460 series arrived, some of the novelty wore off and they were put aside, particularly poses that had been seen before. Just a guess, no more than that. |
#3
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Posted By: Scot Reader
Frank, |
#4
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
FRANK W |
#5
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Posted By: Judson Hamlin
Looking through my T206's, I would agree. While they aren't graded, there are only three 150's that I would call ExMt: Bell, Dougherty and Leifield. Even allowing for the disparity in numbers, that seems low. Barry's analysis is probably right about the extra handling at the time- I might also suggest that some of the later-produced cards may still have been in stock at Amer. Litho. when the ATC discontinued the series in 1911; and not shipped out to the factories to be inserted into packs. |
#6
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
FRANK W |
#7
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Hey Ted, |
#8
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I arrange all my cards in the order of their series. And, with the T206 set, the question you have |
#9
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I don't understand why all you T206 guys with your higher-grade, Graded cards, aren't responding |
#10
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I am doing some number-crunching, and I will shortly post some meaningful data |
#11
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
FRANK W....and interested members..... |
#12
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Posted By: Frank Evanov
I have 81 graded T206 PSA 5 -6 cards. 13 are from the 150 series. Here are some: |
#13
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Two Questions.... |
#14
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Posted By: Frank Evanov
Ted Z. [1] The five pictured are all 150 backs. |
#15
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Posted By: RayB
Not scientific by any means but a trend none the less. |
#16
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Posted By: joe
I only have Detroit players, but here are my 150 series cards. Seems like pretty good grades except a couple. |
#17
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Thanks for the quick response....just one more question....why such a huge difference (5 to 1 ratio) |
#18
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Posted By: Frank Evanov
It's the latter Ted. I limit myself to the ex - ex mt range. My distribution reinforces the notion that there are indeed fewer 150 series cards available in higher grade. |
#19
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Thank you Frank E for the information on your cards. And Ted, great stuff there!!! |
#20
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Posted By: Martin Neal
I have only a small example to add, but it seems to follow the general pattern mentioned above. |
#21
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
FRANK E |
#22
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Posted By: MVSNYC
Ted- i will look at some of my higher grade cards over the weekend...and report back. |
#23
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Most of you know that the majority of Vintage cards in my collection are in their "naked" state. |
#24
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield
This condition differential seems quite significant to a few of us, but not very many. I think it is quite important, something the guides should pick up on, a premium value should be assigned to the series 150 cards in better condition. |
#25
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Posted By: Richard H.
I don't know if your survey has already been completed, but I have some data to submit: |
#26
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Thank you Richard! Thank you very much. |
#27
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Posted By: Glenn
This relates to my area of expertise, so I feel an obligation to explain it. The proposed hypothesis is that the average 150 series card is in lower grade than the average 350 (or 350 or 460) series card. You won't be able to test the validity of your hypothesis by surveying individual collectors unless you can assume (and clearly you cannot) that the collectors do not factor the condition of a card into their purchasing decision AND that condition is unrelated to the value of the card. What you need to do is something called a chi-square analysis, and the data that are required as input have to be a representative sample of the total populations of the cards in each condition. The fact that a card's condition correlates with its probability of having been submitted for grading is inconsequential as this should be equally true of cards from 150 and 350 and 460 series. Ideally, we would have the complete population reports by series from all the major graders. The broader range of grades we have the data from, the more Power (technical term) we'll have in conducting our analysis (i.e., the easier it will be for us to determine that our hypothesis is correct, if in fact it is). So far, we have the data Ted provided of the reports from SGC across 3 grades. Give me a few minutes so I can perform the appropriate analysis. |
#28
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Posted By: Glenn
Absolutely nothing there. That might change if we could look at data across the entire range of grades, but I rather doubt it would. From what we have so far the breakdowns for 150 and 350 series by grade are actually even closer than one would expect if there isn't any difference at all in average condition in the overall populations of 150 and 350 cards. |
#29
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Posted By: Glenn
I didn't notice this previously, but the 150 series cards are actually in slightly higher grade than the 350 series, though the difference isn't remotely close to being statistically significant (and so should be ignored). I'll be happy to analyze the data across a wider range of grades if someone has them, but for now we should treat the series equally. Certainly there shouldn't be a premium placed on high grade 150s compared to 350s. |
#30
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Glenn, if these collectors focus on only getting high grade cards, but their 150 series cards are generally lower than their 460 series, then I think that IS somewhat validating my idea. |
#31
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Posted By: Rich H.
If it helps the analysis, my purchasing was driven by these following "operational rules" in this order: |
#32
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Posted By: Glenn
Richard, |
#33
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Posted By: Glenn
Frank, |
#34
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Posted By: Rich H.
Glenn, |
#35
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Rich, Glenn, |
#36
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Posted By: Glenn
Rich, |
#37
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Posted By: Rich H.
Frank, |
#38
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I received an email from a collector who listed his 18 - T206's. They are high-end PSA 7 to PSA 8 cards. |
#39
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I don't know where to start responding to your posts here.....let's 1st try this one. You stated.... |
#40
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Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#41
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Yes.....approx. 15,000 T206's....a quick calculation based on the fact that every year since 1981, |
#42
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Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#43
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Inputs emailed to me from a "reader" of this Forum yielded 96 PSA-6 cards from the 150 Series |
#44
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Maybe because they don't really collect the T206 white border set, instead they collect high grade graded cards, and it doesn't much matter to them if it is a T206, a Cracker Jack, a T205, or what... So for them, it isn't a question of which series has proportionally fewer high grade cards, they focus on just high grade cards from whatever series. |
#45
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Posted By: MVSNYC
Ted- as discussed/promised, i will get you the 3 backs asap...i had to come down to north carolina for business (hey maybe while i am here i will rummage thru old flea markets to find another wagner, haha)...anyway, i owe you the following info: |
#46
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield
MS, |
#47
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Posted By: MVSNYC
thanks frank... |
#48
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Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#49
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Posted By: MVSNYC
Brian- |
#50
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Posted By: MVSNYC
Ted- |
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