New Hobby Find: 1863 Jordan & Co. CdV of Crossley

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

In September,1863, Harry Wright organized a benefit in Hoboken, New Jersey, to raise money for the St. George's Cricket Club. Known as the Grand Match, fans could gain admission to the games (both cricket and baseball games were scheduled) for 25 cents; but for 50 cents, they would receive an admission ticket that included a photograph of one of four prominent cricket players. This group of four CdV's, which included Harry Wright, father Sam Wright, Crossley, and Hammond, are the first set of collectable cards issued in America. To date there are six known poses- two each of Crossley and Hammond, and one each of the Wrights.

The example pictured above is the fifth one publicly known - there have been three Crossleys (encompassing both poses), one Hammond, and one Harry Wright- which has been offered for sale. I know of no Sam Wright in any collection, although I have seen a copy of it in the Spalding Collection at the New York Public Library. This most recent example was brought to light by a family in the mid-west, and it is always exciting to find something new of this rarity and significance. Thought the board would like to see it.

And incidentally, while the cricket matches were played, the scheduled baseball game was rained out and cancelled.

[Archive]

Posted By: Chris Ahart

that's a great image. Nice to know the history behind it!

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Found in the midwest huh? Please don't tell me I was 5 minutes late to the garage sale down at the end of my block.

We want more details Barry!!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric

Very cool. Thanks for sharing.


When those others were offered for sale, do you know what kind of money they brought? Just curious.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- when I went to pick it up, I think that was you I saw down the block. Were you wearing a red shirt?

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

You weren't by chance driving a LeBaron once owned by John Voight were you?

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Hi Eric- actually I do, since I have now handled three of the five.

REA got the first one of Harry Wright, and it went for 82K. However, while they did a fair amount of research, they mistakenly called it the first baseball card, perhaps unaware of the cricket context.

Mastro got the second one, identical to this pose, but it was labelled Hammond. Nevertheless, it went for 19K.

I sold a pair, both Crossley and Hammond, in March, 2005 for 15K each. It was not an auction but a fixed price list.

This new example will be in my January auction. Time will tell whether it will sell for more or less than it has previously. It's very esoteric and as such hard to predict.

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric

Thanks Barry. It's definitely an interesting card. I'd love to have something like that in my collection.....even if it is from cricket.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

That was me Dan! But Jon Voight bit me, I still have the teeth marks to prove it!

Actually, it was mailed to me. I didn't travel to get it.

[Archive]

Posted By: Al Simeone

Hi Barry,
Always great to have a nice new find! Sorry for the short post we are all over on Lee Behrens post becaue we are more intrested in off topic posts then cards!!! LOL
Come join us for some riveting conversation!!

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

I'm already there Al. I'm not touchy- if that thread gets more posts than mine, then the majority rules!

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

This card is very cool....I better stop there

[Archive]

Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

So this set constitutes the first known cricket cards? Or first known cricket tickets?

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

If the Wright's had not gone on to help with the formation of our American pastime would these tickets be worth anywhere near what they are now?

edited to add a word that I left out.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Corey- at this point, anything that's rectangular, made of cardboard, and can fit in the palm of your hand is a card! How's that for a definition?

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- that's a fascinating question that can be answered in a few different ways. They stand by themselves as cricket cards/tickets (hi Corey), and their history is what it is, Harry Wright notwithstanding.

But because cricketeer Harry Wright became baseball pioneer Harry Wright, they have certainly gained stature among the baseball crowd.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I suppose a similar question could be asked about he CDV's of Abner Doubleday.

[Archive]

Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

Assuming we are calling cdvs cards, that would be the oldest known soldier card.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Corey, I think that ship sailed a long time ago - calling CdV's cards that is. If it fits in a slab it's a card.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

While Doubleday had nothing at all to do with baseball, he still is a part of the folklore.

And I can't tell you how many people still get it wrong. How many articles are out there with phrases such as "Abner Doubleday never would have believed such and such about the game of baseball today", or something along those lines.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ken W.

Barry,

I just noticed that the Jordan & Co. logo is upside down on this example. Is that the case with all the others that you have seen?

[Archive]

Posted By: E, Daniel

"Deeply embedded in the folklore of American sports is the story of baseball's supposed invention by a young West Point cadet, Abner Doubleday, in the summer of 1839 at the village of Cooperstown, New York. The yarn originated in 1907, in the final report of a committee commissioned by major league executives to inquire into the origins of "America's National Game."

The claim that the game was invented by the late Doubleday, who also won enduring fame as a Union general in the Civil War, was based on the dubious testimony of Abner Graves, a retired mining engineer. Indeed, Graves claimed to have actually witnessed the long-ago event. The Graves account appealed to committeeman Albert G. Spalding, a former star player and club owner, and concurrently a famous sporting goods tycoon and a fervently patriotic American.

He persuaded his colleagues to accept the Doubleday invention account without further ado. With the release of the final version of the committee's report, the legend of baseball's immaculate conception began to worm its way into American mythology. Ever since then, sports historians have repeatedly and futilely assailed the Doubleday account, arguing that Abner Doubleday never visited Cooperstown in 1839, that his diaries contain no reference to the game, and that the form of baseball he supposedly invented far too closely resembled the game as it was played in the early 1900s.

Indeed, sports historians have marshaled impressive evidence showing that American baseball, far from being an independent invention, evolved out of various ball-and-stick games that had been played in many areas of the world since the beginnings of recorded history. Among many suggested precursors of baseball, a Russian ball-and-stick game called lapta was recently advanced by propagandists in the last years of the Soviet empire. But in early America, precursors of baseball included informal games of English origin such as paddleball, trap ball, one-old-cat, rounders, and town ball. The latter was a popular game in colonial New England and was played by adults and children with a bat and ball on an open field. -- David Voigt
"



Daniel

[Archive]

Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

This is the one I sold (pre-slab).
This example came from an album in California.
Interesting that both show the Jordan imprint upside down.

[Archive]

Posted By: ramram

Always great to hear the history of some of these historically important baseball items. Barry is always like an open book!

1863 - 1865 was, to me, the single most important period for the spread of base ball. Just as this card shows, cricket and many similar ball games were transitioning with the relatively new game of base ball. The civil war (1861 - 1865) was the biggest virus that spread the base ball addiction. In particular, in early 1864 there was an unusually warm period during February and March. Civil War soldiers always went into winter quarters from around November to March due to the difficulties of waging war during the winter. Boredom ensued. When this early warm weather hit, many of the New York (the real originating city of base ball) soldiers broke out their base balls and bats and showed their fellow soldiers the game of base ball. Soon there were games between companies and regiments. These soldiers took the knowledge of the game home with them after the war ended and it spread like wildfire. I have had many civil war diaries and letters that mention these games that were played in early 1864. Likewise, I have letters noting the transition of the cricketeers to base ball as well (see below).

Sorry if I digress.

Rob M.

From the letter below: “Perhaps you may be interested in knowing that “The Plymouth Rock Cricket Club” has been turned into “the Plymouth Rock Base Ball Club” where at “Ben” is quite dissatisfied. Most of us think that rather a better game then cricket and we play the New York game.”

[Archive]

Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

Btw, Barry I think there are two Sam Wright's at the NYPL.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Ummm...I just want to state for the record that I have been aware for a verrrry long time now that Doubleday had nothing to do with baseball. My example was more along the lines of him being a part of the folklore of baseball.

[Archive]

Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Gorgeous card, Barry. Great discovery.

Here's Abner Doubleday in his baseball uniform.



-Al

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Jimmy answered the question- only that pose has the Jordan ad upside down. The others are rightside up. No explanation why.

And the NYPL may have two Wrights- I'll take your word for it, but just don't remember. I researched them there when I got the first two.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

Barry, when I visited the NYPL to research the CDV I went looking for the St. George's Cricket Club register of play that the '22 spalding collection booklet had listed, but it was missing.

I think I asked about it in a controversial thread about the stolen pieces from the NYPL collection a few weeks ago.

Do you remember seeing that St. George's register at one point?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeremy W.

Isn't this the Crossley that was on Ebay back around early September? Looks like a win-win situation for the seller & Barry. Needless to say, if the original Ebay seller had let the auction go they would have missed out on the true value.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Speaking of which...anyone remember what happened to the cabinets of..was it Harry or George Wright??? that were on ebay and ended early a year or so back? I think they were found in Denver...anyone know what became of them?

[Archive]

Posted By: Ken W.

Just wondered if perhaps the upside down logo was some kind of stamp placed on each card/ticket at a different time then the rest of the printing. Perhaps the tickets had been printed up advertising the games, and then at a later time, Jordan & Co. (not sure what kind of business they were) decided to be a sponsor, and had their logo stamped onto the backs? It even looks like the logo could be a slightly different color from the rest of the printing. A bit greener? Not sure about that. Musings.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Jimmy- I did see the journal. I had to go downstairs to a different room. I remember seeing in the ledger an expense account, or something to that effect, for the game (or did I see the microfilm of it- gee, it's tough getting older and trying to remember these things).

Jeremy- yes, this was the one that was on ebay in September. I actually emailed the seller insisting that she shouldn't sell it early, as she was getting non-stop offers to shut down. She emailed me back that she would leave it up, then a day or two later it disappeared. I emailed and asked her why, and she said she just decided to keep it. I think all the offers made her nervous.

I then befriended her and sent her a good deal of information regarding the card. We communicated regularly after that, and she ultimately asked me if I would sell it for her. She knew nothing about getting it authenticated, so we are already one step ahead of the game.

I gave her a link to this site and invited her to come on if she chooses.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeremy W.

I'm not sure but I think I remember seeing it in a recent large auction. Can't be sure which one though.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

Andrew Jordan was the photographer.
Usually the photographer's imprint came stamped in the card mount from the vendor before any albumen print was pasted on it.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

I think Jordan and Co. made up the CdV's. Don't know if they were the photographer, but probably did print up the admission ticket on the reverse.

Jimmy-could they have employed both a photographer for the front, and a printing company for the back?

[Archive]

Posted By: Ken W.

Jimmy,
Understood. So the printing on the reverse that advertised the game, as well as the albumen photo, would have post-dated the photographer's imprint. I guess on at least two examples, they didn't care that the mounting was upside down. Thanks.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeremy W.

Dan, the George Wright cabinet was in this spring's REA auction (Lot #20).

[Archive]

Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

Great question Barry.
Maybe the back imprints were printed after the albumens were pasted. (Not sure if this is possible)
The Crossley's were the only ones not carefully placed in the press after Jordan sent the mounted photographs?


Here's some related stuff from Harry Devine's book on Harry Wright.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

So the book suggests they did get in a baseball game, but it didn't sound very competitive. Six guys going after a fly ball and dropping it isn't exactly first rate.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

Yes Barry, very strange since the newspaper copies I researched never mentioned the baseball game being played.

As you said, since it wasn't exactly a first rate game, they didn't even care to print it in the news.

And looks like "Little Georgy" wasn't exactly an angel back then...searching for the ball under the women skirts...

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

I owned that George Wright CdV at one time. It has the Jordan & Co. imprint, but no admission ticket. Too bad about that, but he was only 16 years old at the time.

[Archive]

Posted By: Elliot

Barry, trip to Oklahoma?

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

How did you guess Oklahoma?

No, I didn't go. Downtown Brooklyn is about my limit.

[Archive]

Posted By: Elliot

I have it on good authority that you make it to Manhattan. Congrats on getting the card for your auction, I'm sure the consignor will do much better than if she had accepted one of those end it now offers or even if she had let it run on ebay.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Thanks Elliot...yeah, Manhattan I can handle.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Rob M.- I meant to get back to you but forgot amid all the questions.

1863-65 may have been a good time for soldiers to be playing baseball, but the organized game took a hiatus as many of the leading players went off to war. Post-1865 was a boom period for teams organizing clubs, and I always felt 1867 was one of those key years.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeremy W.

Barry, you owned that George Wright piece, how on earth did you sell something like that? I'm assuming you must have moved past your collecting days at that point?

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Jeremy- the stuff I've sold over the years would make for one amazing collection. I still have a small one, with a few very nice things, but I rarely buy anymore. I think those days have passed.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Re Doubleday/Graves, didn't Graves at the time claim to be in possession on the actual ball that was used by Doubleday? Claimed to have had it stored in his attic. Even 100 years ago, dubious items were being discovered in attics, if I'm remembering the story correctly.