How about some answers for this? Where are you Peter Nash?

[David Atkatz]

Proof of prior possession by the library, along with no evidence of legal possession--i.e., legal removal from the library--is evidence of theft.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Proof of prior possession by the library, along with no evidence of legal possession--i.e., legal removal from the library--is evidence of theft.

Is an invoice from an auction house proof of possession?

[David Atkatz]

Of course not. Proof of legal possession. Proof that the material was legally obtained from the library before being sold on.

[D. Bergin]

Everybody who's ever bought anything with a library stamp on it, has a lot of explaining to do, I guess.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Everybody who's ever bought anything with a library stamp on it, has a lot of explaining to do, I guess.

That's right. There are numerous cases of rare document thieves being caught with caches of stolen documents from many different libraries. Most of the time, the libraries in question hadn't even realized said documents had gone walkabout. Guess what? The documents went back to the libraries, and the thieves went to jail. Library stamp was enough.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

That's right. There are numerous cases of rare document thieves being caught with caches of stolen documents from many different libraries. Most of the time, the libraries in question hadn't even realized said documents had gone walkabout. Guess what? The documents went back to the libraries, and the thieves went to jail. Library stamp was enough.

Fine, when it's a clear cut case in a reasonable amount of time.


But by your logic, a library can sell something in a sidewalk sale in 1960, realize it's worth a fortune in 2013, and reclaim that item back into their holdings, based on a stamp that it once belonged to them.

[drcy]

In the expensive fine art world, they say keep your sales receipt because it turns out to be stolen, you legally get your money back from the seller. As an item may have been stolen a long time earlier, the seller may in turn get his money back from the person he bought it from. And so on down the line. Stolen items has long been an issue in the art world, and many buyers will expect you to demonstrate the provenance and legal ownership of a Picasso.

If an item was stolen, you can't legally buy or sell it. You may have paid $5,000, but you don't legally own it. This is why, as a buyer, you should be confident the item you are buying wasn't stolen. Stolen items do exist in the baseball hobby market.

I have no knowledge of the NYPL and its practices and if David says they've never gotten rid of stuff I have no reason to doubt him, but other libraries, schools and even museums do sometimes get rid of extra stuff. Museums have sales, often to get rid of extra stuff or because they're changing the museum's focus.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by drcy

In the expensive fine art world, they say keep your sales receipt because it turns out to be stolen, you legally get your money back from the seller. As an item may have been stolen a long time earlier, the seller may in turn get his money back from the person he bought it from. And so on down the line. Stolen items has long been an issue in the art world, and many buyers will expect you to demonstrate the provenance and legal ownership of a Picasso.

If an item was stolen, you can't legally buy or sell it. You may have paid $5,000, but you don't legally own it. This is why, as a buyer, you should be confident the item you are buying wasn't stolen. Stolen items do exist in the baseball hobby market.

I have no knowledge of the NYPL and its practices and if David says they've never gotten rid of stuff I have no reason to doubt him, but other libraries and even museums do sometimes get rid of extra stuff. Museums have sales, often to get rd of extra stuff or because they're changing the museum's focus.

+1

And said material is always clearly marked as such precisely for the reasons cited above.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Of course not. Proof of legal possession. Proof that the material was legally obtained from the library before being sold on.

The problem with most of these items is that they've been through multiple hands and I'm not sure how the museums go about tracking the thief down. That said, I believe that if you are in possession of an item that belongs to the library or museum it is your moral obligation to return it and then seek restitution from where you got it.