Who said there are no deals on ebay......

[tschock]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don’t think anybody is saying it’s a buyer’s job to educate a seller on what they’re selling. That’s ridiculous. If the buyer doesn’t know the value of the item they are selling, shame on them for not doing their homework. This was not the case with the Lenox card. It was a pricing error. If you think it’s ok to take advantage of the situation on a pricing error, so be it. As someone stated earlier, everyone has draws their own line on morals. I just hope that if you ever make a mistake, someone shows you more compassion than you’re showing this seller. Good luck.

I've asked this before (regarding the Lennox). I did not see where it was pointed out that this was a "pricing error" as opposed to the seller not knowing what they had. This is just an assumption people are making. The only evidence someone pointed to indicate that it was NOT a pricing error was that ALL his T206 cards where listed at the SAME price. Anything else is just an assumption, which gets back to Peter's point about having to now know what is in the mind of the seller as well.

Can someone point me to the post that shows the seller did not INTEND to price the card at $24.95?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by tschock

The only evidence someone pointed to indicate that it was NOT a pricing error was that ALL his T206 cards where listed at the SAME price.

And do you believe everything you read? No research? The seller has 7 other T206s listed. Only ONE, (not ALL) of them are priced at teh SAME price ($24.95).

I guess it's easy to post anything you want on a message board - nobody verifies the facts.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by tschock

I've asked this before (regarding the Lennox). I did not see where it was pointed out that this was a "pricing error" as opposed to the seller not knowing what they had. This is just an assumption people are making. The only evidence someone pointed to indicate that it was NOT a pricing error was that ALL his T206 cards where listed at the SAME price. Anything else is just an assumption, which gets back to Peter's point about having to now know what is in the mind of the seller as well.

Can someone point me to the post that shows the seller did not INTEND to price the card at $24.95?

++++++++++++++++++1

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by tschock

Can someone point me to the post that shows the seller did not INTEND to price the card at $24.95?

Instead of pointing you to a post, how about a phone number? Call him and ask him yourself.

(713) 67x-xxxx (PM for it)

[ullmandds]

why don't you just post Joe O's # up there while you're at it...because I would believe anything he says.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I guess it's easy to post anything you want on a message board - nobody verifies the facts.

You are 100% correct on this. So where does it show this was a "pricing error"?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by tschock

You are 100% correct on this. So where does it show this was a "pricing error"?

I'm not sure what you're looking for? How is it supposed to show that it was a pricing error? What do you want to see?

The only way to know is to call the seller and ask him. If you know of another way, please share.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Guys - It seems wrong to post someone else's phone number on the board without their consent.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

Guys - It seems wrong to post someone else's phone number on the board without their consent.

Agreed and taken care of. Please don't post phone numbers besides a business unless the person gives their approval first.

[chernieto]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm not sure what you're looking for? How is it supposed to show that it was a pricing error? What do you want to see?

The only way to know is to call the seller and ask him. If you know of another way, please share.

What else could the seller say? It is clear he made a mistake, an error a fubar. I always thought people looked through ebay in the hopes of a deal & I never considered my morals would be called into question by agreeing to purchase an item from a seller ( of legal adult age & with over 30,000 transactions) had offered in the marketplace.
Ebay can't force a seller to ship anything. Ask them & they will readily admit that.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

Agreed and taken care of. Please don't post phone numbers besides a business unless the person gives their approval first.

It was a business.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by chernieto

I always thought people looked through ebay in the hopes of a deal & I never considered my morals would be called into question by agreeing to purchase an item from a seller ( of legal adult age & with over 30,000 transactions) had offered in the marketplace.

I've already exlpained this to Pete, but I'll expalin it one more time. Catching a seller napping not knowing what they have (or the value thereof) is one thing. That's their fault for not doing their homework. They listed the item at a price they were comfortable with. Taking adantage of a pricing mistake is another issue.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm not sure what you're looking for? How is it supposed to show that it was a pricing error? What do you want to see?

The only way to know is to call the seller and ask him. If you know of another way, please share.

What I'm looking for is to base an opinion on the facts, not assumptions.

My assumption was that you already called him. Because you are claiming it's a "pricing error", which you and others have claimed as "fact". Or is that an assumption ? You did call him, right? Because you wouldn't just assume it was a pricing error.

See how assumptions work? Or more appropriately, don't work.

I DID go back and look at his other T206 listings, and the price on the Lennox was in line with other common front, similar condition cards. So I take back my statement on them being the SAME price. But they were similar. So there is no clear evidence either way. Which get's back to Peter's point about having to be a mind reader during effectively any transaction.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It was a business.

Then sorry about that....they can PM you for it or you can edit it back. I didn't know it was a business (obviously).

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Just because someone "deserved" it doesn't mean that people can't have mercy. Just as often as people don't want to be "responsible/accountable" there are people that don't know how to show compassion and mercy.

I wanted to clarify my statement after seeing so many back and forths on whether it is ok to get a deal on ebay (or other avenues). My statement about having compassion and mercy is in the case of a seller backing out of the deal.

If a seller (or even a buyer) backs out of a deal and uses good communication in doing so there is no reason why I would personally hold someone to it. Similar to a person returning items to their local store, or a cashier pointing out that an item was on the wrong shelf and the price is not what the customer thought it was. Every situation is a case-by-case scenario and I wouldn't judge either person in this matter since I don't know the full story, and I am not qualified to be a judge.

[BleedinBlue]

I just want to point out that at no time has the eBay seller attempted to contact the buyer and despite the item being listed as "shipped", the USPS has no tracking information on the package.

I still want to know what the eBay seller paid for the card and if the board thinks the eBay seller has an obligation to go back and correct the earlier transaction if he purchased the card at a common price.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by BleedinBlue

I still want to know what the eBay seller paid for the card and if the board thinks the eBay seller has an obligation to go back and correct the earlier transaction if he purchased the card at a common price.

+++++1

[tschock]

Originally Posted by BleedinBlue

I just want to point out that at no time has the eBay seller attempted to contact the buyer and despite the item being listed as "shipped", the USPS has no tracking information on the package.

I still want to know what the eBay seller paid for the card and if the board thinks the eBay seller has an obligation to go back and correct the earlier transaction if he purchased the card at a common price.

The only obligation the ebay seller has is to complete the contract as agreed upon with the ebay buyer (as loosely enforced as these contracts may be).

If the ebay seller got a 'steal of a deal' on the card from the original seller, he has no 'obligation' to the original seller, however I would find it hypocritical to expect the ebay buyer to 'understand' or come to a new agreement with the ebay seller if the ebay seller was not willing to recompense the original seller as well. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just hypocritical (IMO).

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by BleedinBlue

I still want to know what the eBay seller paid for the card and if the board thinks the eBay seller has an obligation to go back and correct the earlier transaction if he purchased the card at a common price.

It depends on how the previous transaction occured. If the previous seller approached the buyer (who is now the seller) and said, "I have this card and I want $20 for it" and the the buyer purchased if for that amount, that goes back to what I've been saying over and over - it's a seller's responsibility to do their own homework to know what they're selling and the value. There is nothing to "correct."

Now a question for you. If you do believe the buyer has an obligation to go back and "correct" the earlier transaction, how far back should the correction go? Should that person go back and correct the person he purchased it from and so on and so on? How far back do we go to make it right in your book?

[packs]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. A seller who lists something for sale at a certain price should have no expectations about receiving a different price for their item.

I don't know what all this talk about mistakes is. Sure, people get busy and move quickly. But these are adults and no one needs to hold their hand in my opinion. You make a mistake, you own up to it. I see nothing reasonable about wanting to get out of a deal because you didn't know what you were doing.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know what all the fuss is about. A seller who lists something for sale at a certain price should have no expectations about receiving a different price for their item.

I don't know what all this talk about mistakes is. Sure, people get busy and move quickly. But these are adults and no one needs to hold their hand in my opinion. You make a mistake, you own up to it. I see nothing reasonable about wanting to get out of a deal because you didn't know what you were doing.

Bless you and your opinion!!!!

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It depends on how the previous transaction occured. If the previous seller approached the buyer (who is now the seller) and said, "I have this card and I want $20 for it" and the the buyer purchased if for that amount, that goes back to what I've been saying over and over - it's a seller's responsibility to do their own homework to know what they're selling and the value. There is nothing to "correct."

Now a question for you. If you do believe the buyer has an obligation to go back and "correct" the earlier transaction, how far back should the correction go? Should that person go back and correct the person he purchased it from and so on and so on? How far back do we go to make it right in your book?

I wouldn't go farther back than 1909, but at some point you are going to encounter a dead seller. Then do we have to bring his heirs into the discussion. This could get very complicated.

"Reductio ad absurdum" I maintain is a valid argument.

[packs]

For members who think a seller is reasonable in saying they made a mistake and the listing was incorrect only after an item has sold, I have a question for you.

If you sold something to me and then I get buyers remorse and come saying I didn't mean to bid that amount so I'm not paying, how do you feel about that? Do you think I should pay what I bid?

Another scenario. You're a seller. You sell me a card. I find out the next day that the same card sold for less money. Now I want you to reduce my winning bid because the card sold for less. Am I being reasonable?

[glynparson]

If the price were low due to seller not knowing or being lazy then it is his fault. If it was a mistake of some sort by an employee or he mistakenly left it in at $25 instead of what he was going to list for than I think he should be allowed to back out. We all make mistakes, I would ship the card but that does not mean I expect someone else should have to do this. I would understand especially if this is his vocation that the extra money may make a huge difference to this person and I would not feel right capitalizing on a mistake. If all the facts come out I would more easily be able to form my opinion. Until that time i see reasonable examples on both sides.

not sure where i was going with thread title lol.

[pbspelly]

Someone may already have posted about this, but from a legal perspective (as opposed to an ethical one), a lot depends on (a) the knowledge of the buyer and (b) the reason that it was underpriced (i.e whether it was a clerical error or a misunderstanding about the value of the card). The following is copied over from an online legal site (and is thus not intended as legal advice from me):

Unilateral Mistake

A unilateral mistake is a mechanical error of calculation or perception concerning a basic assumption on which the contract is formed. For example:

The Boston Red Sox and Ramon Garcia orally negotiate a contract where Garcia will play for the Red Sox and the Red Sox will pay him $15,000. During the negotiation, Garcia thought he heard the Red Sox say $50,000. This is a unilateral mistake.

The general rule involving unilateral mistakes is that, if the non-mistaken party either knew or should have known of the other party’s mistake, the mistake is a “palpable unilateral mistake” which makes the contract voidable by the mistaken party. For example:

The Pentagon is accepting bids from ship building companies to build a new aircraft carrier. Ten different companies submit bids. Nine of those bids range in price from $140 million to $150 million. The tenth bid, belonging to Seven Seas Shipbuilding Inc., comes in at $43 million. The Pentagon quickly signs Seven Seas to the contract. The next day, Seven Seas reviews its bid submission and discovers some calculating errors that resulted in their bid being $43 million when it should have been $136 million. In this case, the contract will be voidable by Seven Seas. The fact that there was a $97 million difference between Seven Seas’ bid and the next lowest bid should have been a clear indication to the Pentagon that Seven Seas had made a mistake somewhere. Therefore, the Pentagon either knew or should have known that Seven Seas made a mistake. That being the case, the mistake was a palpable unilateral mistake and Seven Seas can void the contract. See M.F. Kemper Construction Co. v. City of Los Angeles, 37 Cal.2d 696 (1951).

Please note that palpable unilateral mistakes will only make a contract voidable if the mistake is a mechanical error (ex: mistakes in calculation or perception). Mistakes in judgment as to the value or quality of an object will not make the contract voidable. For example:

George is the owner and manager of Babe’s Baseball Memorabilia. Mickey is rummaging through his attic one day when he finds a baseball bat signed by Ted Williams. Mickey, who is not a sports fan, has no idea who Ted Williams is but he remembers that there is a baseball memorabilia shop a few blocks away that buys things with signatures on them. Mickey brings the bat to George who offers Mickey $200 for it. Mickey gladly contracts with George to sell the bat for $200. A few weeks later, Mickey is telling Roger, an avid sports fan, about the bat and Roger informs Mickey that the bat was worth $5000. Unfortunately for Mickey, the contract he made with George is enforceable because Mickey’s mistake was not a palpable unilateral mistake. It was simply a mistake in judgment as to the value of the bat.

If the non-mistaken party either did not know, or had no reason to know, of the other party’s mistake, there is a binding contract.

Several modern cases, however, have determined that if the mistaken party notifies the other party of the mistake before the non-mistaken party relies on the mistake, the mistaken party can rescind the contract.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know what all the fuss is about. A seller who lists something for sale at a certain price should have no expectations about receiving a different price for their item.

I don't know what all this talk about mistakes is. Sure, people get busy and move quickly. But these are adults and no one needs to hold their hand in my opinion. You make a mistake, you own up to it. I see nothing reasonable about wanting to get out of a deal because you didn't know what you were doing.

+1. It seems like the seller moves a decent amount of product and in this case, a valuable card slipped through the cracks. If I was the buyer, I would be pretty pissed off if the seller tried to reneg after the transaction was completed. I'm pretty sure that if the OP didn't raise the subject right away, the card would have already been shipped.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by wolf441

+1. It seems like the seller moves a decent amount of product and in this case, a valuable card slipped through the cracks. If I was the buyer, I would be pretty pissed off if the seller tried to reneg after the transaction was completed. I'm pretty sure that if the OP didn't raise the subject right away, the card would have already been shipped.

Thanks to the OP, we know you cant even out auctions...until the card is in hand

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Thanks to the OP, we know you cant even out auctions...until the card is in hand

That was a mistake on my part, I was browsing the sold listings when I saw
it on the second page. It usually takes two or three days after the sale for it
show up. I had just made a purchase from this seller who shipped the card
the next day. If I had known the card hadn't been shipped I would have waited to post about it.

P@trick R0.m0lo

[GoCubsGo32]

Very interesting topic.

I might be missing something but...

IF there was an error in the listing...Why didn't the seller contact the buyer within 12-24hrs of the auction ending about the error? IF that was the case, I would think, they would promptly do so, to inform the buyer since it is a $1,200 error. In fact, how come the buyer hasn't been contact yet..still..??

Like I said, I could be missing something...but how does the buyer even know the seller made a mistake until the seller contacts the buyer?

Did Net54 really step in to stop this transaction from happening?

It seems to me, that the seller was ready to ship the item since he had already paid for the postage and printed USPS label off eBay...

[nolemmings]

Did Net54 really step in to stop this transaction from happening? It seems to me, that the seller was ready to ship the item since he had already paid for the postage and printed USPS label off eBay...

Not only that, he left buyer positive feedback three days after the transaction-no mention of error.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Not only that, he left buyer positive feedback three days after the transaction-no mention of error.

My feedback I leave is automated...once a buyer pays for an item the system automatically leaves feedback for me. Perhaps that's what happened in this instance?

[nolemmings]

That could be, Dan. I just noted that the feedback occurred three days after the BIN was hit, and apparently the error was not spotted or the seller still allowed payment and for feedback. I assume that even if feedback was automatic, he could take steps to change it for a specific transaction, but I don't know.

[BleedinBlue]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

That could be, Dan. I just noted that the feedback occurred three days after the BIN was hit, and apparently the error was not spotted or the seller still allowed payment and for feedback. I assume that even if feedback was automatic, he could take steps to change it for a specific transaction, but I don't know.

Feedback was left on Monday, 5/19, the same day that the seller purchased postage. Payment was required immediately after hitting BIN on 5/17.

Post office still does not have any tracking information available and delivery was esimated as 5/21. Seller still has not contacted buyer.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by BleedinBlue

Feedback was left on Monday, 5/19, the same day that the seller purchased postage. Payment was required immediately after hitting BIN on 5/17.

Post office still does not have any tracking information available and delivery was esimated as 5/21. Seller still has not contacted buyer.

I believe you can set up your automatic feedback to be left at different times...it can be left immediately upon payment (like mine is), left when shipped (when label is printed), or left once you receive feedback.

[dabigyankeeman]

As a Yankee collector, i HATE beyond belief when someone identifies a GIANTS card as a YANKEE card. Either its total stupidity or they do it on purpose to either fool people that dont have knowledge or to get people to look at it.

I understand what you guys are saying about the Lenox back and the value, i am just bringing up a different error in that listing. Its such a bugaboo of mine. The guy really didnt know what he had.

[birdman42]

FWIW, the seller had sold another Seymour, in better condition, the week before, also for a BIN of $24.95. Sweet Cap back, though.

Bill

[BleedinBlue]

After 3 weeks of non-response from the seller to e-mails and no-delivery of the card the seller has finally surfaced. They have refunded the buyer of the card and informed them there was a pricing error. When asked what the correct price is because the buyer was still interested in the card the seller informed the buyer that he had already sold the card to the person who notified him about the pricing error.

I hope that wasn't a Net54 member.

[ZachS]

Originally Posted by BleedinBlue

the seller informed the buyer that he had already sold the card to the person who notified him about the pricing error.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by BleedinBlue

After 3 weeks of non-response from the seller to e-mails and no-delivery of the card the seller has finally surfaced. They have refunded the buyer of the card and informed them there was a pricing error. When asked what the correct price is because the buyer was still interested in the card the seller informed the buyer that he had already sold the card to the person who notified him about the pricing error.

I hope that wasn't a Net54 member.

As much as I can have sympathy for a seller who would like to get out of a sale on an item that had the wrong price on it. This seller wouldn't get any sympathy from me. I only can sympathize with someone who is open in their communications with the buyer from the beginning and in no way should the card be sold to someone else in the mean time without it being offered to the original buyer for a more fair price for both the buyer and seller.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I wouldn't go farther back than 1909, but at some point you are going to encounter a dead seller. Then do we have to bring his heirs into the discussion. This could get very complicated.

"Reductio ad absurdum" I maintain is a valid argument.

I've tried that with a few good deals I got, going both backward and forward. It's an interesting exercise. The result is generally that everyone made money commensurate with the role they had in moving the product. I once bought a very valuable item for $100 after haggling with the seller for a while. He was happy, and even told me he made a small profit. I later found out the item was very valuable - do I go back and give the seller a cut? Does he go back and give the guy at the flea market a cut? Does the guy at the flea market go back and give the little old lady a cut? Here's the kicker - the guy I sold it to made more than anyone. Does he give ME a cut? bwahahaha

[jandr272]

Originally Posted by BleedinBlue

When asked what the correct price is because the buyer was still interested in the card the seller informed the buyer that he had already sold the card to the person who notified him about the pricing error.

All that haughty-taughty preaching for the poor old seller and the truth is the whole thing was pretty underhanded and slimy!

[DoctorK]

Is the McKinley being offered on page 24 of the upcoming REA auction the same McKinley discussed here?

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by DoctorK

Is the McKinley being offered on page 24 of the upcoming REA auction the same McKinley discussed here?

Yep, I believe that is one and the same!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yeah. Wonder if the seller reneged or if the consignor actually has $9 into it.