Mordecai Brown auto

[mschwade]

One sold in Heritage Auction's 2010 Signature Auction for $65,725

[David Atkatz]

Am I the only one who doesn't like this ball even one little bit? (Especially after seeing the Heritage ball.)

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Am I the only one who doesn't like this ball even one little bit? (Especially after seeing the Heritage ball.)

I thought the same thing but kept to myself cause I'm not a expert and everyone posted how they love it.

[w7imel]

Dave like I said its not mine but a friends what is it you dont like?

[David Atkatz]

It looks drawn, shaky, and many letter forms are off.
Other than that, it's fine.

[w7imel]

it has 1928 written on ball so not sure if age would be a factor. The ball itself looks bumpy but who knows. It has been in his family for 80 some years so I doubt it would be a malicious forgery. Looked like other samples I compaired to but again no expert. I believe he is going to send off to PSA for their opinion but that opens up a whole new can of worms around here....haha The ball is a "dandy ball" and you can see big threads in it, not a smooth ball like the one in the herritage auction. Makes for an interesting conversation for sure.

[w7imel]

From 1920 to 1945, Brown ran a filling station in Terre Haute that also served as a town gathering place and an unofficial museum. He was also a frequent guest at Old-Timers' games in Chicago. In his later years, Brown was plagued by diabetes and then by the effects of a stroke. He died in 1948 of diabetic complications. My friends grandfather farmed near this towm so I imagine that is where he got it

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Am I the only one who doesn't like this ball even one little bit? (Especially after seeing the Heritage ball.)

I'm not familiar with Brown, but my comments were on the basis if it were authentic.

I can totally see this being signed slowly etc., how was his health later in life?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[w7imel]

Dave, from what I have seen all his autos look slow and shakey...There only a few balls out there with his auto so I dont think it was a common signed item at the time and dude only had 3 fingers....haha that couldnt have helped. Is around same timeframe as joe jackson and look at his writing. safe to say back then they didnt get as many balls handed to them to sign as these modern atheletes...Try autographing a ball sometime and it really does feel wierd. Again just some thoughts on the ball

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by w7imel

Dave, from what I have seen all his autos look slow and shakey...There only a few balls out there with his auto so I dont think it was a common signed item at the time and dude only had 3 fingers....haha that couldnt have helped. Is around same timeframe as joe jackson and look at his writing. safe to say back then they didnt get as many balls handed to them to sign as these modern atheletes...Try autographing a ball sometime and it really does feel wierd. Again just some thoughts on the ball

Nonsense. Take a look at the Heritage ball--also signed in the late twenties.

[baseball tourist]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Nonsense. Take a look at the Heritage ball--also signed in the late twenties.

Can only offer that the Heritage ball has "1919" dated on it, not late twenties.

[David Atkatz]

My mistake re: date. Still don't like the ball shown here. According to Wikipedia, he pitched an exhibition game in 1928 against the House of David, and did very well, indeed. The ball in question is dated 1928--no reason to believe he wasn't still in fine shape.

[w7imel]

dave all I can tell you is the baseball he has , it has been in his families possition for the past 8 decades and pretty sure back in 1928 there wasnt some person going around signing baseballs for mordicaei brown. The man who asked me to show it to you guys is not lying to me about the ball. he is as surprised about the rarity of the ball as any of us. It is not like today where we have pages and pages of auto samples to copy. where even would someone come up wiyh a known example to copy? Oh well everyone has an opinion, there always has to be a doubter in the crowd I guess.

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by w7imel

dave all I can tell you is the baseball he has , it has been in his families possition for the past 8 decades and pretty sure back in 1928 there wasnt some person going around signing baseballs for mordicaei brown. The man who asked me to show it to you guys is not lying to me about the ball. he is as surprised about the rarity of the ball as any of us. It is not like today where we have pages and pages of auto samples to copy. where even would someone come up wiyh a known example to copy? Oh well everyone has an opinion, there always has to be a doubter in the crowd I guess.

Hey Michael,

I wouldn't focus too much on the date and what "auto samples" were around then. If it's a forgery, it likely wasn't forged in 1928. You may want to have someone take a look at the ink and try to date it first. I do believe it look slowly drawn and the "three finger" thing has nothing to do with it.

Take a look at this non-shaky example from 1946 (2 years before his death and almost 20 years after yours):

[w7imel]

My friend is taking the ball to the Chicago autograph convention this weekend and having psa/dna look at it. I will keep you posted as to how it goes.

[ATP]

Any update to this?
Best,
Jeff

[yanks12025]

Bump


So what's the update on this ball???

[ATP]

Originally Posted by w7imel

My friend is taking the ball to the Chicago autograph convention this weekend and having psa/dna look at it. I will keep you posted as to how it goes.

Hi Mike, what ever ended up happening regarding the M. Brown ball?
Jeff

[w7imel]

PSA did not pass it, Jim said they gave him reasons but I didnt press him too much about it as I could tell he was really bummed out due to the fact the ball had been in the family so long. My only thought as to why not authenticated was that if you look at the ball there is a date written on it that is very faint, Maybe the signature was also at one point and either his dad or grandpa might have "touched it up" to make it dark again. Again just a idea. Dont think anyone will ever know.

[JeremyW]

It doesn't look touched up to me. I'm guessing that PSA is being overly cautious due to the value of this ball.

[w7imel]

and that could be he is going to send to JSA after the holidays to get their thoughts as well.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

It doesn't look touched up to me. I'm guessing that PSA is being overly cautious due to the value of this ball.

Jeremy,
Have you ever seen the single signed balls that PSA authenticates for the big auction houses???
They are not shy about authenticating single signed "high value" baseballs.
And I agree that ball does not look touched up but don't they authenticate touched up balls?

[w7imel]

Thats kind of what I thought Richard..Seems PSA has never been worried about authenticating big item stuff almost like they love the attention that it was them deemed item authentic! JMO on it all

[JeremyW]

Richard- Don't get me wrong. I'm not a PSA/JSA defender. Maybe I'm just gullible, but the story behind the ball sounds legit to me. If the owner of the 3 Finger ball wanted to sell the ball, I wouldn't be surprised to see it in a major auction w/both a PSA & a JSA letter.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by w7imel

PSA did not pass it, Jim said they gave him reasons but I didnt press him too much about it as I could tell he was really bummed out due to the fact the ball had been in the family so long. My only thought as to why not authenticated was that if you look at the ball there is a date written on it that is very faint, Maybe the signature was also at one point and either his dad or grandpa might have "touched it up" to make it dark again. Again just a idea. Dont think anyone will ever know.

Maybe PSA didn't pass it for the reason I previously stated. It's a forgery.

[w7imel]

Dave Im not ruling it out. Its not my ball. All I was ever saying is he had this ball in family possesion for several decades. Longer than it became cool to forge Mordicei Brown balls. Where would you get exampliers and the reason to forge in the early part of century?

[David Atkatz]

As Isaac Newton said concerning gravitation's strange action-at-a-distance, "hypothesis non fingo" (I frame no hypothesis.)
But I do know this: That ball is no good.