Best Basketball Card of the 20th Century

[Eric72]

Cast your vote for the basketball card that you think is the best of them all. If your choice is not in the poll, please explain what leads you to believe it is better than the nine listed there.

Images and discussion are more than welcome.

Revised to add: I realize Cousy's name is spelled wrong...can't figure out how to edit poll choices.

Best regards,

Eric

[Forever Young]

Jordan 101.

Mj is the mantle or Ruth of the new generation. There is not a close second. The card not only is iconic, but it is super rare and condition sensitive.

[vthobby]

Ben,

PSA and SGC will not even slab these anymore (Jordan Star #101). The only recent verified sales are BGS.

The fact that 2 of the top 3 TPGs will not touch these cards in my opinion does not make it a great investment nor does it convey a sense of "authenticity" for the majority of these cards that are out there.

If this card was accepted by all 3 TPGs then it might have a shot at stardom but with PSA and SGC saying "no", then what message does that send to the market?

I admit that a BGS 9 recently sold for $7500 or so but if this card was so rare and incredibly valuable how do you explain that it ONLY sold for about 2.5X what a PSA 9 1986 Fleer Jordan goes for? There are THOUSANDS of PSA 9 Fleer Jordans so that BGS 9 #101 should have sold for many multiples of the Fleer Jordan if it was so rare and collectible. The fact that it "only" sold for 2.5X the PSA 9 Fleer Jordan RC tells me that there were 2 bidders out there that were maybe not so convinced of the rarity or future of that card.

IMO 1948 Bowman Mikan is "THE CARD". I actually feel that another card from that iconic set should be mentioned and that is the Card #1 Ernie Calverley as it is the first hoops card EVER that was issued in a strictly all hoops set. He was also a standout NCAA player.

Peace, Mike

PS 1 Of course, I know there are Authentic Star cards out there and most reside in BGS holders BUT once again, the fact that PSA and SGC will not slab these anymore hurts the perception of these cards in my opinion.

PS 2 This is my card from that 1948 Bowman iconic set (Card #1) and there are only 4 in a higher grade.

002.jpg

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Ben,

PSA and SGC will not even slab these anymore (Jordan Star #101). The only recent verified sales are BGS.

The fact that 2 of the top 3 TPGs will not touch these cards in my opinion does not make it a great investment nor does it convey a sense of "authenticity" for the majority of these cards that are out there.

If this card was accepted by all 3 TPGs then it might have a shot at stardom but with PSA and SGC saying "no", then what message does that send to the market?

I admit that a BGS 9 recently sold for $7500 or so but if this card was so rare and incredibly valuable how do you explain that it ONLY sold for about 2.5X what a PSA 9 1986 Fleer Jordan goes for? There are THOUSANDS of PSA 9 Fleer Jordans so that BGS 9 #101 should have sold for many multiples of the Fleer Jordan if it was so rare and collectible. The fact that it "only" sold for 2.5X the PSA 9 Fleer Jordan RC tells me that there were 2 bidders out there that were maybe not so convinced of the rarity or future of that card.

IMO 1948 Bowman Mikan is "THE CARD". I actually feel that another card from that iconic set should be mentioned and that is the Card #1 Ernie Calverley as it is the first hoops card EVER that was issued in a strictly all hoops set. He was also a standout NCAA player.

Peace, Mike

PS 1 Of course, I know there are Authentic Star cards out there and most reside in BGS holders BUT once again, the fact that PSA and SGC will not slab these anymore hurts the perception of these cards in my opinion.

PS 2 This is my card from that 1948 Bowman iconic set (Card #1) and there are only 4 in a higher grade.

Attachment 187081

A bgs 9.5 just sold for 52k. And a 9 sold for just over 11k last year. I think they are a very good investment so if anyone has a 7.5 grade or higher and looking to move, hit me up.

[vthobby]

You say a 9 sold for $11,000 last year. Fair enough but a BGS 9 JUST sold on Ebay for $7200. Item # 201280085550.

So as far as the downward trend of BGS 9 as evidenced by your quoted price and the recent Ebay price, I guess if you can find a BGS 9 at a good price more power to you.

The 9.5 price shuts alot of folks out at that price.

Mike

[Griffins]

'86 Jordan is the '52 Mantle of basketball.

Not the greatest player of all time, not the RC of a iconic player, but the iconic card of a generations legend.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

You say a 9 sold for $11,000 last year. Fair enough but a BGS 9 JUST sold on Ebay for $7200. Item # 201280085550.

So as far as the downward trend of BGS 9 as evidenced by your quoted price and the recent Ebay price, I guess if you can find a BGS 9 at a good price more power to you.

The 9.5 price shuts alot of folks out at that price.

Mike

It was a buy it now that was up for minutes I believe.

As for as the 9.5 goes, I don't see how it matters that it shuts a lot of people out as there is only 1.

[vthobby]

By being so high and that there is only one of the 9.5s out there, virtually every collector/investor is shut out of that card for obvious reasons.

That pool of collector/investors now MUST focus on the 9s or below so there should be a nice pool of folks trying to buy up those 9s or less in theory.

I was thinking that because of this then the price of those 9s should be higher but curious why it wasn't that way?

This should help this card in the long run if folks have faith in BGS and assuming a cache of these is not discovered somewhere.

Peace, Mike

[Forever Young]

Right.. If you can find me some 9s for your 7200, I would really appreciate it. hence the "I think it is a greAt investment". The card should be on the list and IMO, will be the greatest card if it isn't already. If and when A couple of tge other companies decides to grade.. done deal. I am surprised they haven't slready.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Griffins

'86 Jordan is the '52 Mantle of basketball.



Not the greatest player of all time, not the RC of a iconic player, but the iconic card of a generations legend.

+1 And just like the Mantle, there are a ton of them out there, but demand still exceeds supply.

I voted for the '86 Jordan, but my absolute favorite basketball card of all time is really the '88 Fleer All-Star Jordan. It pictures him in mid-flight during his famous dunk from the free-throw line.

http://www.vintagecardprices.com/pics/2171/103188.jpg

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Griffins

'86 Jordan is the '52 Mantle of basketball.

Not the greatest player of all time, not the RC of a iconic player, but the iconic card of a generations legend.

Disagree. The 52 Mantle is special because it is a short printed high number card from the first regular Topps set. PSA has graded over 14K Jordans compared to 1243 Mantles. The 86 Fleer Jordan is the 89 UD Griffey of basketball.

The top 3 basketball cards are the 48 Mikan, 57 Russell and 61 Chamberlain. I went with the Wilt because he was the best player of the first ~40 years of the NBA.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by rats60

Disagree. The 52 Mantle is special because it is a short printed high number card from the first regular Topps set.

The '52 Mantle was double printed.

Originally Posted by rats60

The 86 Fleer Jordan is the 89 UD Griffey of basketball.

Wow.

[steve B]

I guess I'd have to ask what's meant by "best"

All the listed cards would be good choices, and there would be a bunch of others depending on stuff like age, what team you follow and a bunch of other stuff.

I'll pick the Bird/Erving/Johnson card, For me it's hard to beat the combination of the main players in the Celtics/Lakers rivalry plus one of my favorite players.

I might stretch to the 92 fleer Darryl Dawkins signed insert. Another favorite, if only for the backboard smashing.

But If I was offered any one of the cards on the list for free? I'd take the Mikan. It's got a lot going for it, and not a lot of downside.

Steve B

[vthobby]

Steve,

I liked your post. Your way of thinking is interesting where you say "If I was offered any one of the cards on the list for free".

I think that is a great way of looking at this question. Throw out the prices and ask "if any of these were free which would I choose". Assuming they are all worth the same today and will all increase at their own rate in the future.

Probably not realistic but it is a cool idea.

In that scenario, my choice would still be Mikan also.

Peace, Mike

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by steve B

I guess I'd have to ask what's meant by "best."

Steve B

Hi, Steve.

This is merely an opinion poll. Everyone is encouraged to vote for (and post) the card they think is, "best." Personally, I chose the '86 Fleer Jordan. In my humble opinion, there are no right or wrong answers.

Thanks for the input, gentlemen. Carry on.

Best regards,

Eric

[vthobby]

In the most recent REA auction, the 1948 Bowman Mikan just set a world record in PSA 8 as it sold for $16,800 with commission!

Mike

[Exhibitman]

I voted none of the above. They are all great cards but I consider aesthetics more than anything else. That disqualifies the Bowman, 1957 Topps and 1961 Fleer cards. The 1980 trio is a significant card but an uggo. The Jordan, frankly, has graphics that overwhelm a dark picture. I hate shiny cards, so no on the Kobe.

I choose the 1969-70 Topps Wilt Chamberlain. To me that's what a basketball card should look like. Tall, large color photo of an alltime great player, great clean graphics that complement rather than interfere with the image. I chose Wilt over Lew because the color scheme on Lew's card is not as bold and interesting as the Wilt card.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

In the most recent REA auction, the 1948 Bowman Mikan just set a world record in PSA 8 as it sold for $16,800 with commission!

Mike

Nearly all the cards listed in the poll are iconic. I had not checked out this thread before, but I went with the '86 Fleer Jordan. A PSA 10 of the Jordan card is a $14-15K card, despite the fact that there are nearly 10 times as many PSA 10s of the Jordan card as there are of Mikan in 8 or above. "Best" is such a vague term, but I think Jordan card is the most iconic basketball card of all-time.

In the era of huge overproduction, it is amazing to me what the Jordan '86 Fleer card sells for at auction. But that is due to demand. There are over 200 PSA 10s of the Jordan card out there, and it is still a $14-15K card.

The assertion that the '86 Fleer Jordan is comparable to the Upper Deck Griffey doesn't seem to work at all, IMO. A PSA 9 of the Griffey card can be had for under $45 and a PSA 8 of that card can be had for under $25.

[CW]

One part of the Fleer Jordan's mystique as a PSA 10 is the condition sensitivity of the card. Despite being a card from 1986, it's a really tough card to find in perfect condition. Centering is atrocious for the issue, and those colored borders with white cardboard stock show even the tiniest amount of wear. Edge chipping is also common. I think that's a big factor in the $15K price tag.

I remember back in '99-2000 a PSA 10 was a $25K - $33K card, so it still has a ways to go before it reaches those levels again.

[jbhofmann]

A modern guy would likely say

'97 Precious Metal Gems Green-Jordan

[showtime]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Ben,

PSA and SGC will not even slab these anymore (Jordan Star #101). The only recent verified sales are BGS.

The fact that 2 of the top 3 TPGs will not touch these cards in my opinion does not make it a great investment nor does it convey a sense of "authenticity" for the majority of these cards that are out there.

If this card was accepted by all 3 TPGs then it might have a shot at stardom but with PSA and SGC saying "no", then what message does that send to the market?

I admit that a BGS 9 recently sold for $7500 or so but if this card was so rare and incredibly valuable how do you explain that it ONLY sold for about 2.5X what a PSA 9 1986 Fleer Jordan goes for? There are THOUSANDS of PSA 9 Fleer Jordans so that BGS 9 #101 should have sold for many multiples of the Fleer Jordan if it was so rare and collectible. The fact that it "only" sold for 2.5X the PSA 9 Fleer Jordan RC tells me that there were 2 bidders out there that were maybe not so convinced of the rarity or future of that card.

IMO 1948 Bowman Mikan is "THE CARD". I actually feel that another card from that iconic set should be mentioned and that is the Card #1 Ernie Calverley as it is the first hoops card EVER that was issued in a strictly all hoops set. He was also a standout NCAA player.

Peace, Mike

PS 1 Of course, I know there are Authentic Star cards out there and most reside in BGS holders BUT once again, the fact that PSA and SGC will not slab these anymore hurts the perception of these cards in my opinion.

PS 2 This is my card from that 1948 Bowman iconic set (Card #1) and there are only 4 in a higher grade.

Attachment 187081

the reason the others don't grade them is because the plates and card stock for many years of the star sets were used well after the initial run. I don't remember the whole story but I do remember hearing the owner of star kept a lot of the unused card stock and plates for some time. at a future date either he or someone he gave them to ran off tons of freshly printed cards from numerous years of production. though they are not technically counterfeits since they are on the true card stock and from the original plates most collectors of the set are aware that the original run numbers are nowhere near what is actually out there now. most of us who collect them are aware it is very possible we have later printed runs in our sets. but I just like the look of the cards so I am content. I believe there was a lawsuit that brought put many people on the hook related to this. there were also current ebay sellers that were included. I believe bigboydsportscards or something to that effect was also included. many years ago I even bought complete unopened packs from him as he had a plethora of them. regardless of all the shadiness with them, I still love those cards. and the Jordan is definitely rarer than the 86 fleer but will never ever be recognized as the rc or be sought after by collectors as much.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by showtime

the reason the others don't grade them is because the plates and card stock for many years of the star sets were used well after the initial run. I don't remember the whole story but I do remember hearing the owner of star kept a lot of the unused card stock and plates for some time. at a future date either he or someone he gave them to ran off tons of freshly printed cards from numerous years of production. though they are not technically counterfeits since they are on the true card stock and from the original plates most collectors of the set are aware that the original run numbers are nowhere near what is actually out there now. most of us who collect them are aware it is very possible we have later printed runs in our sets. but I just like the look of the cards so I am content. I believe there was a lawsuit that brought put many people on the hook related to this. there were also current ebay sellers that were included. I believe bigboydsportscards or something to that effect was also included. many years ago I even bought complete unopened packs from him as he had a plethora of them. regardless of all the shadiness with them, I still love those cards. and the Jordan is definitely rarer than the 86 fleer but will never ever be recognized as the rc or be sought after by collectors as much.

Your information is incorrect. The reprint/counterfeit rumor of the 1984 Star set was, and is, one of the biggest misconceptions in the hobby and has long since been proven to be a fallacy. The 1984 Star set and the MJ 101 XRC card was NEVER reprinted. Most knowledgeable collectors today who deal in high-end basketball cards know this. I would advise anyone who do not to read the following article published five years ago in which Steve Taft, the industry's foremost expert in Star Company cards was interviewed by the site JordanCards.com.

http://jordancards.com/blog/the-real...rt-steve-taft/

Taft is an original Star Co. dealer from the eighties. He is THE guy who worked with law enforcement and the lawyers of the NBA to bring down the Robert Levine / Home Shopping Network scandal. He is responsible for training Beckett, SCD, and GAI on how to authenticate genuine Star Co. issued cards and weed out the crap. Below is a more recent thread in which Taft commented.

http://www.beckett.com/forums/thread...31-page-1.html

And the current population numbers on the Star MJ 101 XRC supports all this and reflects the true rarity of the card. When compared to the 1986 Fleer, the pop report of the 1984 Star is not just low. It is ludicrously low. Using current, unbiased, real data from the pop reports of the Big 3 grading companies (PSA, BGS, SGC) will reveal the following eye-opening analysis:

1986 Fleer Jordan Total Pop = 14,655 + 7,920 + 1,431 = 24,006

1984 Star Jordan Total Pop = 384

24,006 vs. 384

That is an incredible 62 to 1 ratio. J

If PSA ever grades the card will explode like a "supernova". Think about all the collectors that will need one for their psa registered "set(s)".

[ThoseBackPages]

Mj all day!

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Your information is incorrect. The reprint/counterfeit rumor of the 1984 Star set was, and is, one of the biggest misconceptions in the hobby and has long since been proven to be a fallacy. The 1984 Star set and the MJ 101 XRC card was NEVER reprinted. Most knowledgeable collectors today who deal in high-end basketball cards know this. I would advise anyone who do not to read the following article published five years ago in which Steve Taft, the industry's foremost expert in Star Company cards was interviewed by the site JordanCards.com.

http://jordancards.com/blog/the-real...rt-steve-taft/

Taft is an original Star Co. dealer from the eighties. He is THE guy who worked with law enforcement and the lawyers of the NBA to bring down the Robert Levine / Home Shopping Network scandal. He is responsible for training Beckett, SCD, and GAI on how to authenticate genuine Star Co. issued cards and weed out the crap. Below is a more recent thread in which Taft commented.

http://www.beckett.com/forums/thread...31-page-1.html

And the current population numbers on the Star MJ 101 XRC supports all this and reflects the true rarity of the card. When compared to the 1986 Fleer, the pop report of the 1984 Star is not just low. It is ludicrously low. Using current, unbiased, real data from the pop reports of the Big 3 grading companies (PSA, BGS, SGC) will reveal the following eye-opening analysis:

1986 Fleer Jordan Total Pop = 14,655 + 7,920 + 1,431 = 24,006

1984 Star Jordan Total Pop = 384

24,006 vs. 384

That is an incredible 62 to 1 ratio. J

If PSA ever grades the card will explode like a "supernova". Think about all the collectors that will need one for their psa registered "set(s)".

That is an interesting ratio, very similar to the 1948 Bowman George Mikan Rookie. Between SGC and PSA there have been 319 graded and with Beckett, maybe another 20 or so. A PSA 8 Mikan also just set a world record for that card in that grade by selling for $16,800 in one of the recent high visibility auctions.

Mike

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

That is an interesting ratio, very similar to the 1948 Bowman George Mikan Rookie. Between SGC and PSA there have been 319 graded and with Beckett, maybe another 20 or so. A PSA 8 Mikan also just set a world record for that card in that grade by selling for $16,800 in one of the recent high visibility auctions.

Mike

The large difference is the demand for Jordan is way more than Mikan. As in.. not close(CRAZY RATIO).

[ThoseBackPages]

Rest assured that you can probably easily count on one hand the number of people in Zimbabwe that know who Mikan was, and have fingers to spare.

MJ on the other hand..... well known Globally

[Doublestriker]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Mj all day!

+1 Jordan not even close.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The 84 Star Jordan dwarfs the third year, 86 Fleer Jordan in every way.

[68Hawk]

top 5:

#1
[IMG][/IMG]



#2
1950 Bread For Health Mikan



#3
1960 Kahns Jerry West



#4
[IMG][/IMG]



#5 1980 Topps Bird/Dr J/Magic

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The 84 Star Jordan dwarfs the third year, 86 Fleer Jordan in every way.

Except for aesthetically. I don't think anyone believes the '84 Star to be a more visually appealing card than the 86/87 Fleer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Except for aesthetically. I don't think anyone believes the '84 Star to be a more visually appealing card than the 86/87 Fleer.

Fair enough, although neither card really gives a good view of his face. But the Star is worse, you can't really make out any features.

[Bored5000]

I know it is not a particularly valuable card, but I still love the 1985 Nike promo card of Jordan because it is Jordan in the Jumpman pose that inspired the ubiquitous Jordan logo. I voted for the '86 Fleer Jordan card a while ago, but I also love the Nike card because that is the image I think of when I think of Jordan.