eBay negative feedback

[Mdmtx]

I've been thinking about this more and am actually a little ticked off. Let's say a company made a habit of selling things on eBay that presented better in photos than they are. Let's say a company placed 500 of these items on eBay selling for an average of 100 bucks each. Had them all end at about the same time. Then collected 50,000.00 in funds from the deceptive sales. Now it takes 3 or 4 days to receive the merchandise. Then 2 or 3 days of emails about the deceptive sale. Then 3 or 4 more days to ship back then a day or 2 to process a refund. Looks to me like a great way to have a 50 k interest free loan for 10 to 15 days. Not to mention the possibility that some just keep the merchandise and the sale becomes final. You guys may not like my negative feedback, but I'm not going to enable that type business model/practice. To think the seller is the only one trustworthy to hold the merchandise and the funds at the same time is ludicrous. In the return process the roles are reversed and the buyer is now the seller. If the original seller isn't willing to put himself in the buyers shoes, maybe he should not be a seller.

[Sean1125]

What is your eBay username so I can make sure to block you, please?

[Mdmtx]

Mkmtx block away

[Mdmtx]

Glad to see you support shady dealing Sean

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

Glad to see you support shady dealing Sean

It is not standard practice for any seller to give a refund before an return item is in hand. I do not support shading dealings by anyone.

[Mdmtx]

It is not standard dealing to misrepresent your goods either. If a seller is concerned about following the rules and precedents that have been set, they should follow them as well. This was a simple transaction. Made complicated by the sellers failure to properly represent his item. Then compounded by an unwillingness to place any trust in the buyer. The seller lost all trust when the deceptive ad was placed. If you feel the pendulum should always swing to the sellers side, then you are mistaken.

As an added bit of info, I have perfect feedback as both a buyer and a seller. So please block me Sean. I would hate to be unblocked because I support fair dealing.

Mark Medlin

[Mdmtx]

And to be clear for the casual reader, there are 2 topics being discussed in this post.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

It is not standard dealing to misrepresent your goods either. If a seller is concerned about following the rules and precedents that have been set, they should follow them as well. This was a simple transaction. Made complicated by the sellers failure to properly represent his item. Then compounded by an unwillingness to place any trust in the buyer. The seller lost all trust when the deceptive ad was placed. If you feel the pendulum should always swing to the sellers side, then you are mistaken.

As an added bit of info, I have perfect feedback as both a buyer and a seller. So please block me Sean. I would hate to be unblocked because I support fair dealing.

Mark Medlin

Nobody is supporting misrepresentation of the item. We are just saying that you need to follow proper channels to address the issue. E-mailing the seller to demand a refund before sending the item back is not proper channels. If there is one thing eBay is good at, it's ensuring that you get your money back when you return an item, regardless of the level of trust between the buyer and the seller. But you have to follow proper channels.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

I've been thinking about this more and am actually a little ticked off. Let's say a company made a habit of selling things on eBay that presented better in photos than they are. Let's say a company placed 500 of these items on eBay selling for an average of 100 bucks each. Had them all end at about the same time. Then collected 50,000.00 in funds from the deceptive sales. Now it takes 3 or 4 days to receive the merchandise. Then 2 or 3 days of emails about the deceptive sale. Then 3 or 4 more days to ship back then a day or 2 to process a refund. Looks to me like a great way to have a 50 k interest free loan for 10 to 15 days. Not to mention the possibility that some just keep the merchandise and the sale becomes final. You guys may not like my negative feedback, but I'm not going to enable that type business model/practice. To think the seller is the only one trustworthy to hold the merchandise and the funds at the same time is ludicrous. In the return process the roles are reversed and the buyer is now the seller. If the original seller isn't willing to put himself in the buyers shoes, maybe he should not be a seller.

I ended up keeptng a card from ebay id battlefield where there are multiple theads about because did not want to hassle on a 20 dollar card etc.. (actually 5 dollar card if scan/description accurate) but wha you said seems like his business model

[Mdmtx]

I own a parkhurst nagurski from battlefield that I kept about a year ago. Was exactly the type of situation I was referring to. Feedback doesn't tell the whole story. It's only the tip.

[Mdmtx]

I left negative feedback and I will not do any business with that person again. Enabled is sweeping under the rug. I chose to take the 40 dollar hit and broadcast the sales tactics. If I go the refund route I would be hushed. So I feel I did not enable this seller, instead I feel I took a stand at my expense.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

I left negative feedback and I will not do any business with that person again. Enabled is sweeping under the rug. I chose to take the 40 dollar hit and broadcast the sales tactics. If I go the refund route I would be hushed. So I feel I did not enable this seller, instead I feel I took a stand at my expense.

Again, it's not getting a refund OR leaving feedback. You can get a refund AND still leave feedback. There is no need for you to "take the 40 dollar hit" in order to "broadcast the sales tactics."

By refusing to return the card for a refund, you actually make it more likely that eBay, the seller, and future buyers will disregard your message of displeasure. (See the other conversation running under this header for what I mean by not taking a complaint seriously if the buyer is unwilling to return the item for a refund).

[Mdmtx]

Ok. Then I will contact eBay. Wasn't aware that i was still entitled to a refund.

[Jantz]

You said the seller is tripleplayvintage in your post #29 and that you have left this seller negative feedback.

I just looked up his feedback and no negative feedback is showing for the last 6 months.

Are you sure that's the seller's Ebay name?

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

Not to mention the possibility that some just keep the merchandise and the sale becomes final.

You mean like you just decided to do? By somehow rationalizing that you are in an either/or scenario of either leaving negative feedback or getting your money back, you are being an enabler in your imagined scenario.

If you are not satisfied that the item you received is as advertised, go through official channels to file for a refund. EBay will have you return the card and will ensure you get your money back when the tracking on the return shipment shows the package was delivered back to the seller. After that, you can still leave whatever feedback you feel is appropriate.

Getting upset because the buyer asked you to return the card for a refund is unproductive, and I fail to see how letting the buyer KEEP the money for what you consider a fraudulent transaction is somehow better than what you call LOANING him the money until eBay refunds it to you.

Returning what you bought for a refund is standard operating procedure in any industry that deals with hard goods, and in many cases, is the only meaningful way to reinforce your displeasure with the goods or transaction. No matter how displeased you are though, you still have to go through the proper channels to carry out the return/refund.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

I've been thinking about this more and am actually a little ticked off. Let's say a company made a habit of selling things on eBay that presented better in photos than they are. Let's say a company placed 500 of these items on eBay selling for an average of 100 bucks each. Had them all end at about the same time. Then collected 50,000.00 in funds from the deceptive sales. Now it takes 3 or 4 days to receive the merchandise. Then 2 or 3 days of emails about the deceptive sale. Then 3 or 4 more days to ship back then a day or 2 to process a refund. Looks to me like a great way to have a 50 k interest free loan for 10 to 15 days. Not to mention the possibility that some just keep the merchandise and the sale becomes final. You guys may not like my negative feedback, but I'm not going to enable that type business model/practice. To think the seller is the only one trustworthy to hold the merchandise and the funds at the same time is ludicrous. In the return process the roles are reversed and the buyer is now the seller. If the original seller isn't willing to put himself in the buyers shoes, maybe he should not be a seller.

I disagree. The time and shipping costs would not make this profitable. I think it's pretty ridiculous that you expect a refund without returning the card. I have agreed with everything you have said up until this point. But you are making a bad situation worse.

I agree with Sean as a seller I would block you.

[Mdmtx]

Block away.

[Mdmtx]

And to be clear I would return the card. I just expect the refund prior to my sending. I have read posts about people failing to refund, delaying refunds etc.. I'm not interested in relinquishing what little leverage I do have until he processes the refund. I will contact eBay and perform the return however they outline it.

And in response to pokerplayer, if you see no value in interest free loans please forward me as much cash as you can spare. The scenario I pointed out could be construed as a small ponzu scheme. If you had enough items to sell you could in fact role that into a large sum of money by way of interest free loan and use that money for a quick flip and then repay your accounts. Not saying this was done, but could be under the current system.

[Mdmtx]

Great point lance. Done.

[kmac32]

Looked at the listing and saw only a scan of the front of the card. I know that when I buy cards, I also want to see a scan of the back also. Is there a reason that you did not request one. If a seller does not send or post a back scan when requested, I do not bid.

[Mdmtx]

He graded it as vg/ex. I didn't feel I needed to see the back. In hind sight it would have simplified things if I would have asked. But with his statement of condition I felt I had enough information to understand the card condition. Vg/ex is an overstatement if written on.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

He graded it as vg/ex. I didn't feel I needed to see the back. In hind sight it would have simplified things if I would have asked. But with his statement of condition I felt I had enough information to understand the card condition. Vg/ex is an overstatement if written on.

I guess I do not take anyone at their word when it comes to ebay. I would rather make my own judgement before bidding. VG/ex in one person's opinion may be something completely different in my opinion. Scans of both sides of the card leave no room for deception and everyone is protected.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

I just expect the refund prior to my sending.

That will never happen. Ebay does not require it, and no seller in their right mind would do so, regardless of whether they are honest or dishonest. It leaves the seller wide open to retribution by an already-disgruntled buyer.

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

I will contact eBay and perform the return however they outline it.

As said several times, eBay requires you to return the card for a refund. If you return the card, it is not up to the seller whether to refund your or not. When you file for the return, eBay/Paypal will freeze the funds in the seller's account, and release them back to you upon proof of delivery of the item back to the seller (so be sure you get tracking on the return shipment).

[Mdmtx]

Thanks for the info lance. Will do.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

And to be clear I would return the card. I just expect the refund prior to my sending. I have read posts about people failing to refund, delaying refunds etc.. I'm not interested in relinquishing what little leverage I do have until he processes the refund. I will contact eBay and perform the return however they outline it.

And in response to pokerplayer, if you see no value in interest free loans please forward me as much cash as you can spare. The scenario I pointed out could be construed as a small ponzu scheme. If you had enough items to sell you could in fact role that into a large sum of money by way of interest free loan and use that money for a quick flip and then repay your accounts. Not saying this was done, but could be under the current system.

There is value in an interest free loan. There is no value in taking the time and expense to ship a 40 dollar card, or even a 400 dollar card for a short term loan. The few bucks that the shipping costs instantly make this idea unprofitable. Even if you don't value the time and shipping and packing the card only cost 2 dollars you would need a 5% return in less than a month. Your argument does not make sense to me. Nor does expecting a refund before returning a card.

[Mdmtx]

We will have to agree to disagree here with regard to the loan value. But, I will admit my insistence of refund first is odd. The issue arises from the delay in response, the appearance that the ad was deceptive (especially after closer scrutiny of the sellers feedback) and previous posts here on net54 about other sellers delaying refunds. If I ship the card and usps fails to deliver, then what? I didn't ask to be in this predicament. I purchased a card that was graded vg/ex by the seller. He failed to deliver that. Now due to his failure I am required to be out my money at least 2 weeks. Make a trip to the post office and have additional unreimbursed expenses, assume the risk of delivery by the mail service - this all stems from the deceptive ad the seller placed. If that sounds fair to you then I am obviously confused, because it sounds like I have been rewarded with extra effort, expense and risk because the seller was deceptive. Now please block me if I seem harsh in my critique because if you defend that type of deal I have no desire to buy anything from you. eBay ID Mkmtx

Mark Medlin

[mechanicalman]

I do not wish to comment on the OP's situation, as I think a lot has been said already. However, the conversation prompts a question I'd like to pose to those interested in this subject.

If there was a similar situation where you receive a card that's not as described (call it a card with a crease that was described as EX) and you go through the traditional channels to send it back and you receive a full refund, do you then give negative feedback? Or do you give positive feedback because the seller returned your money? Neutral? No feedback at all?

Personally, I haven't had this happen (except receiving an EMPTY package once), but I would certainly not provide positive feedback for anyone who wastes my time and money (in return shipping). At the risk of being banned by half the sellers on this board, I think I'd lean toward neutral or negative if the seller was not fast and courteous. Wondering how others might rate this.