ERA question when error in inning

[mid50sbaseball]

well...after reviewing some rules as you suggested it appears this ENTIRE CONVERSATION may be moot, lol.

someone please feel free to correct me if I'm interpreting this incorrectly.

so the intial condition was that a runner reached 3rd because of a wild throw while he was attempting to steal 2nd.

MLB rule 9.12.a.5

An error is a statistic charged against a fielder whose action has
assisted the team on offense, as set forth in this Rule 9.12 (Rule
10.12).
(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:
(5) whose wild throw permits a runner to reach a base safely,
when in the scorer’s judgment a good throw would have
put out the runner, unless such wild throw is made
attempting to prevent a stolen base;

so if I'm reading that correctly, no error was actually committed, thus the runner, having reached 3rd via the overthrow and subsequently scoring on the single would be considered an earned run.

again, feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted something.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by mid50sbaseball

well...after reviewing some rules as you suggested it appears this ENTIRE CONVERSATION may be moot, lol.

someone please feel free to correct me if I'm interpreting this incorrectly.

so the intial condition was that a runner reached 3rd because of a wild throw while he was attempting to steal 2nd.

MLB rule 9.12.a.5

An error is a statistic charged against a fielder whose action has
assisted the team on offense, as set forth in this Rule 9.12 (Rule
10.12).
(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:
(5) whose wild throw permits a runner to reach a base safely,
when in the scorer’s judgment a good throw would have
put out the runner, unless such wild throw is made
attempting to prevent a stolen base;

so if I'm reading that correctly, no error was actually committed, thus the runner, having reached 3rd via the overthrow and subsequently scoring on the single would be considered an earned run.

again, feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted something.

A players gets credit for stolen base on a wild throw, no error if the runner stays at second, once the runner advances because of a wild throw, an error has to be charged. What the next batter does determines earned run or not, If the batter hits a Sac Fly, run is unearned, if the next batter homers, its an earned run.

[Butch7999]

mid50s raised a valid and salient point (9.12.a.5) we'd overlooked, but Jim65 (thank you, sir) beats us to a rebuttal.

9.12
(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:
(1) whose misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw)... prolongs the presence on the bases of a runner or permits a runner to advance one or more bases...
(5) whose wild throw permits a runner to reach a base safely, when in the scorer’s judgment a good throw would have put out the runner,
unless such wild throw is made attempting to prevent a stolen base;
(6) whose wild throw in attempting to prevent a runner’s advance permits that runner or any other runner to advance one or more bases
beyond the base such runner would have reached had the throw not been wild;

and

(d) The official scorer shall not charge an error against:
(1) the catcher when the catcher, after receiving the pitch, makes a wild throw attempting to prevent a stolen base,
unless the wild throw permits the stealing runner to advance one or more extra bases or permits any other runner
to advance one or more bases;
(2) any fielder who makes a wild throw if in the scorer’s judgment the runner would not have been put out with ordinary effort
by a good throw, unless such wild throw permits any runner to advance beyond the base he would have reached had the throw not been wild;

So mid50s, you are correct that no error is charged on the overthrow allowing the steal of 2nd -- however, an error is charged
(or should be) on the runner's advance to 3rd as a result of the overthrow.
Because the runner is on 3rd as the result of an error, and not merely safe at 2nd, the run he scores on an ensuing single is unearned.
The run is earned if he scores, as Jim65 posits, on an ensuing home run (or, we'd think, on any extra-base hit).

[frankbmd]

The unearned run in the dead ball era is the principle reason that the ERAs are so low. With more fielding errors a higher percentage of runs are unearned in that era. It is not that the pitchers were uniformly awesome or that the hitters were terrible. The gloves were bad and statistically the fielding was "little leagueish".

What has always bothered me a little is the extra base on a throwing error vs the extra out provided to the hitting team on a dropped fly ball.

In the second case (dropped ball providing a four out inning essentially) the hitting team can score 15 runs in the inning after the error on what would have been the third out and all the subsequent runs in that inning are unearned.

In the first case (as in the scenario presented) the extra base provides an opportunity for the runner on third to score and be unearned if he wouldn't have scored from second before the third out, but subsequent runs in the inning would or could be earned I believe. But if he is on third base as a result of the errant throw and the next batter hits a home run, I believe the run from third would be earned as he would have scored anyway from second on the home run.

Other scenarios exist where one has to consider all the events of the inning before determining if some or all of the runs are unearned.

Another conundrum in my opinion is the passed ball vs the wild pitch, both of which result in an unearned base if you will. The passed ball is on the catcher, but is not an error. The wild pitch is on the pitcher, but is not an error. I do not believe that either can result in an unearned run, as in the scenario provided here where the extra base throwing error can result in an unearned run. Furthermore at times to distnguish between a wild pitch and a passed ball can be somewhat arbitrary, but I don't think it matters with respect to unearned runs.

Disclaimer: I have not read the rule book in decades and if any of my conjecture is inaccurate, so be it. The general topic however is interesting for discussion.