T206 350/460 series (illustrated) and why certain T-brands are mutually-exclusive

[Sean]

Thanks Ted.

[sreader3]

Hi Ted,

After surveying the situation, I believe the subject composition of all backs printed in the 460 series can be defined in relation to six groups, as follows:

Group A:
Baker – Young (Glove Shows)
(consists of 28 350/460 regular print subjects -- your Group A minus super prints minus Ames)

Group B:
Berger – Wiltse (Pitching)
(consists of 28 350/460 regular print subjects – your Group B)

Group C:
Abbaticchio (Blue Sleeves) – Wiltse (Portrait with Cap)
(consists of 22 460-only subjects not printed with P42 and not part of your "Exclusive 12")

Group D:
Chance (Portrait Yellow Background) – Mathewson (Dark Cap)
(consists of 6 350/460 super prints)

Group E:
Bergen (Catching) – Seymour (Portrait with Cap)
(consists of 12 460-only subjects printed with P42)

Group F:
Crandall (Portrait with Cap) – Wheat
(consists of your “Exclusive 12” 460-only subjects)

Rule-Breaker: Ames (Arms Above Head)

* * *

Subject Composition for Backs printed in 460 Series:

American Beauty 460: B, C, E, F
Broad Leaf 460: A, D
Cycle 460: A, B, C, D, E, F (+ Ames)
El Principe de Gales: A, B, C, D, E, F (+ Ames)
Hindu (Red): A, D, F
Lenox (Black): A, B, C, D, E (+ Ames)
Lenox (Brown): B, E
Old Mill: A, B, C, D, E, F (+ Ames)
Piedmont 460/25: A, B, C, D, E, F (+ Ames)
Piedmont 460/42: A, B, D, E (+ Ames)
Polar Bear: A, B, C, D, E, F (+ Ames)
Sweet Caporal 460/25: A, C, D, E (+ Ames)
Sweet Caporal 460/30: C, D, E, F
Sweet Caporal 460/42 No Overstrike: A, D, F (+ Ames)
Sweet Caporal 460/42 Overstrike: A, B, C, D, E, F (+ Ames)
Tolstoi: A, B, C, D, E, F (+ Ames)
Uzit: B, C, E, F (+ Ames)

The reason I have Ames as a "rule-breaker" is that he is available with both SC 460/25, which does not include Group B, and Uzit, which does not include Group A.

Please let me know if you see any errors in these proposed groupings.

Thanks.

Scot

(Note 1: Of course, EPDG, Old Mill, Polar Bear and Tolstoi were earlier-printed with subjects beyond those in the listed groups).

(Note 2: And, naturally, mutual exclusivity attaches with respect to backs which have none of Groups A-F, nor Ames, in common).

[tedzan]

Hi Scot

Everything you listed looks good to me....with the exception of your references to Ames. Sorry, but I have to differ with you on Ames for the following reasons......

1.... After 10+ years of collecting American Beauty 460 (AB 460) cards (I now have 70 of the 74 that were printed), I have never seen Ames with this back. And, I
think you will agree that although AB 460 cards are very tough, they are not that scarce that in this day there may be some still "missing in action". Such as there
are with the Broad Leaf 460, red Hindu, or Uzit backs.

2.... Furthermore, I have never seen this Ames with a Uzit back. Nor do I know of anyone having seen this front/back combo. I'm curious where you got that from ?

3.... The collage that Johnny V posted in Post #5 here clearly indicates that Ames is one of the 35 subjects printed in Group A.

4.... Finally, pardon me for reiterating this....but, there are 4 subjects (in Group A) that have yet to be confirmed with the red HINDU back. All four are possible with
this back based upon what we know regarding the mutually-printed backs in the 350/460 series. Eventually, these four will de discovered with red Hindu backs.

Ames (hands above head)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
Reulbach (no glove)

Therefore, I do not believe that Ames is a "rule-breaker".


TED Z
.

[sreader3]

Hi Ted,

Thanks for your response.

I purposely did not say Ames is extant with AB460 or Red Hindu.

So we are really down to Uzit as a point of contention.

If Ames doesn't exist with Uzit it would make my life easier since he would not be a rule-breaker.

Tim and Jim say he exists with Uzit, so I guess that's the rub.

Do you know the history behind the Ames Uzit entry?

Scot

[Pat R]

There are some non-YB scraps that made it out the back door too.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Hi Ted,

Thanks for your response.

I purposely did not say Ames is extant with AB460 or Red Hindu.

So we are really down to Uzit as a point of contention.

If Ames doesn't exist with Uzit it would make my life easier since he would not be a rule-breaker.

Tim and Jim say he exists with Uzit, so I guess that's the rub.

Do you know the history behind the Ames Uzit entry?

Scot

Hi Scot

Here's what I recollect regarding Ames with a "UZIT" back. Along with my numerous T206 surveys which I started on this forum back in 2006, I ran
a UZIT survey. The response to this survey by Net54er's was pretty good, as we accounted for 48 confirmed UZIT cards in the first 2 weeks.

During that time period, an advanced T206 collector (Don) came to my booth at the Philly Show in Ft Washington (PA). He showed me his binder of
T206's which included 15 UZIT cards in a plastic sheet. I was impressed and in the course of our conversation, he told me that he had 5 (or 6) more
UZIT cards back home.

A couple days later Don called me about a trade we had planned. Also, he described the other UZIT cards he had, one of which he claimed was Ames.
I guess I trusted that he had Ames, since he appeared to be a very forthright guy at the show.

So, I guess I'm guilty of posting Ames as confirmed in my UZIT survey back in 2006 without having seen this card. My bad !

Subsequently, I proposed my theory regarding the various 350/460 mutually-exclusive backs, which have withstood the test of time. I realized then
Ames could not have been printed with the UZIT back.

So, why others here show Ames confirmed with UZIT is something that I cannot speak for.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Pat R

Some nice looking 350/460 series "scraps". Thanks for posting them.

It would have been nice if these 350/460 series cards with Sweet Cap 350-460, Factory #30 backs
were originally issued (instead of being overprinted as Factory #42 cards).






Your 5 cards bring my tally up to 16 of these scraps recently in circulation on ebay. And, I'm sure
there are more of them out there.


TED Z
.