enough is enough

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by packs

Well you are right that he said that but my interpretation of that statement is a social one, not that he's against America or the flag, since it implies he would stand for both if not for the injustices he sees in our society.

You must have WAY WAY WAY better eye sight than me. I looked VERY hard at the word "Flag" and didn't see anything written between the lines. Amazing.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You just got b!tched slapped with some harsh truth and you're still posting? You're a fool.

And you're an ignorant asshole. The flag is a symbol, the constitution is what this is all about and the actual execution of it's intent and purpose. You can bastardized the point all you want but that is what this symbolic gesture is all about and for the record you don't have to be black to support it, you just need to see things from a perspective that is inherently foreign to you

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

So so SOOOOO many angles to this. Here is my breakdown and viewpoint(s).

1) First and foremost, we need to look at the person who started this movement - Colin Kaepernick. Yes, the racial minority person who has made millions in this country, and was raised by white people, had this to say about why he knelt for the Anthem: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color." Again, a black person/person of color, who has made millions in this country and was raised by white people, said that. Additionally, he blatantly stated that he is protesting the flag, which represents this country, the freedoms of this country, and the ultimate sacrifice given to protect those freedoms.

2) Kaepernick's unemployment is due to his play on the field not equaling out the image risk that comes with hiring him. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. He chose to exercise his 1st Amendment rights to free speech and the right to protest at work. There are consequences that come with one's actions, and the consequences thus far have not violated The Constitution.

3) Nothing changed in this country to further any supposed "racial oppression" in the past year, so why are all of these players just NOW protesting the supposed social injustices? Why weren't they with Kaepernick last year?

4) As stated above, Kaepernick was protesting the Flag, and therefore protesting the Anthem & this country as a whole. The players that state they are with Kaepernick, that this has nothing to do with the Flag/the Anthem/the military, they're full of $#%!. That's EXACTLY what this has to do with. If you don't think this country provides each individual with the same freedoms/rights, then yes, you would be protesting the country.

5) I don't care if you want to protest, that's your Constitutional right. Just don't do it at your job that I and many others are paying the salary for. Now, with that being said, I am one that doesn't agree with their agenda/reason for protesting, but that's a topic for a different forum.

6) Taya Kyle (Chris Kyle's - American Sniper - wife) challenged the NFL to affect real change, instead of essentially being a bunch of lazy, cowardly "social justice warriors." Here is here letter to the NFL: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...er-to-nfl.html. She's dead-freaking-on. If you actually think there's social injustice/racial oppression in this country, then do something about it. Don't take a knee like a pansie; get out and put your money where your mouth is. Hold community events, work with the communities, families, and law enforcement to come together and build better relations. Taking a knee does NOTHING but drive a wedge into this country and create a bigger divide.

7) The league-wide protests took place after Trump called them all out. So now are you protesting racial oppression/social injustice, or are you protesting the President? By the way, he wasn't wrong about the product on the field suffering because of the penalties. Football is borderline unwatchable with all of the laundry consistently littering the field.

8) Don't ridicule me for being PO'd about this and making my voice heard. I have the same rights and freedoms as the next person, and it's hypocritical to say otherwise.

9) This "movement" loses even more credibility with me when the players stand for UK's Anthem (where the Slave Trade started) and never mention the Middle East/Asia, where there's the highest percentage of slaves. As well, don't complain about "racism" then hold up your fist to symbolize "black power." That furthers the racial issues in this country, as it symbolizes the empowerment of a skin color. SKIN COLOR DOES. NOT. MATTER.

10) There is some fault on both sides. The PA fire chief that referred the those who are kneeling as the n-word, etc. No place for that.

11) This whole "unity" thing is crap. You're getting hit where it hurts - your wallet - and now you're quickly working on damage control so you can stay rich and employed in this country that supposedly "oppresses" you. Just like the Browns RB Isaiah Crowell quietly giving money to the police union(s) after posting a picture of a police officer being decapitated. It's hollow. Stand with respect for the Anthem, put your tails between your legs, and go out and actually do something about your issues with this country.

12) The NFL and NBA have lost me, and quite possibly forever. Between the kneeling & what I view as a protest against this country, Curry/LeBron attacking Trump and those who voted for him, and Gregg Popovich saying that white people need to be made uncomfortable, I have better ways to allocate my money and time. I called DirecTV and had my FREE year long NFL Sunday Ticket subscription cancelled. I've seen a couple smarta$$ comments telling people who are boycotting the NFL to enjoy the LPGA tour on Sundays. Actually, I will enjoy watching baseball, golf, tennis, and NASCAR more, so thank you.

I love this country and everything it stands (oh there's that word again - stand) for. Is it perfect? Hell no, but it's the greatest damn country in this world and I take exception to anyone that wants to attack it in any way, shape, or form. Recognize the freedoms and opportunities that our Founding Fathers and those who gave the ultimate sacrifice have afforded us. Use those to constructively build a better society without destroying the framework. We have gotten so far away from being decent human beings and loving thy neighbor. God Bless you, yours, and America.

That's the best I have without being TOO political. Sorry Leon if this post breaks any rules.

Amazing to me that in all the "angles" you numerically lay out there's not a single one (aside from #10) that includes the angle of the African American. Actually it's not amazing at all, it's typical and why this country is a mess. Your points are all limited to your singular perspective on the issue and include no consideration for anyone other than yourself and the perspective of white America. Basically you don't condone the "N" word, what a guy. Congrats and thanks for waisting my time.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

And you're an ignorant asshole. The flag is a symbol, the constitution is what this is all about and the actual execution of it's intent and purpose. You can bastardized the point all you want but that is what this symbolic gesture is all about and for the record you don't have to be black to support it, you just need to see things from a perspective that is inherently foreign to you

1) If this is about the Constitution, then it is about the Flag and it is a protest against this country. The Constitution is an aspect the Flag symbolizes.

2) If this is about the Constitution, then can you please show me where in the Constitution it states who these rights are and are not extended to?

3) I really hate when people tell me I need to see things from the other perspective. Here's why: it leads to questions I can never get an answer for.

- Why aren't these athletes protesting the violence in the south side of Chicago, that just recorded its 500th official homicide of 2017 this past weekend?

- If these minorities/people of color were truly oppressed, why is 68% of the NFL and 74% of the NBA black?

- Why is the leader (Colin Kaepernick) of this "movement" a supporter of Fidel Castro, a truly oppressive dictator?

- Why don't these athletes - or anyone who feels oppressed by America for that matter - find another country to live in if the US is truly that oppressive?

[packs]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

You must have WAY WAY WAY better eye sight than me. I looked VERY hard at the word "Flag" and didn't see anything written between the lines. Amazing.

You should read the rest of the quote. That is where the social aspect comes in:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

At the time he made this quote Alton Sterling and Philando Castille has just been killed.

Eric Reid joined him 4 days later in his protest. Here is what Eric Reid said:

"We chose to kneel because it's a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy."

Give up Packs. This is a fruitless conversation

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Amazing to me that in all the "angles" you numerically lay out there's not a single one (aside from #10) that includes the angle of the African American. Actually it's not amazing at all, it's typical and why this country is a mess. Your points are all limited to your singular perspective on the issue and include no consideration for anyone other than yourself and the perspective of white America. Basically you don't condone the "N" word, what a guy. Congrats and thanks for waisting my time.

You're right, I'm not going to speak for a black person. Why? I'm white. It's not my place to speak for them (unlike those who speak for Native Americans when it comes to Chief Wahoo). I am, however, an American, which affords me the right to voice my opinion.

Thank you for feeling my post wasted your time essentially because I am white, and because I am white my opinion apparently shouldn't matter on this subject.

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

1) If this is about the Constitution, then it is about the Flag and it is a protest against this country. The Constitution is an aspect the Flag symbolizes.

2) If this is about the Constitution, then can you please show me where in the Constitution it states who these rights are and are not extended to?

3) I really hate when people tell me I need to see things from the other perspective. Here's why: it leads to questions I can never get an answer for.

- Why aren't these athletes protesting the violence in the south side of Chicago, that just recorded its 500th official homicide of 2017 this past weekend?

- If these minorities/people of color were truly oppressed, why is 68% of the NFL and 74% of the NBA black?

- Why is the leader (Colin Kaepernick) of this "movement" a supporter of Fidel Castro, a truly oppressive dictator?

- Why don't these athletes - or anyone who feels oppressed by America for that matter - find another country to live in if the US is truly that oppressive?

You know what, nevermind. Your generation will be gone soon enough

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Congrats and thanks for waisting my time.

No D!ckhead Dan (I bet you get called that a lot) your ignorant posts are "waisting" your time.

It's "wasting" you stupid moron.

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

You're right, I'm not going to speak for a black person. Why? I'm white. It's not my place to speak for them (unlike those who speak for Native Americans when it comes to Chief Wahoo). I am, however, an American, which affords me the right to voice my opinion.

Thank you for feeling my post wasted your time essentially because I am white, and because I am white my opinion apparently shouldn't matter on this subject.

It's about perspective taking you tool. I'm white too but I can still take the perspective of others and understand where they're coming from

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

You know what, nevermind. Your generation will be dead soon enough

I'm 23. And that doesn't answer any of the questions I asked.

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I'm 23.

Then you're ignorant and that's scary

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I'm 23. And that doesn't answer any of the questions I asked.

I'm on my phone at a bar about to meet up with a woman. You should do the same

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Then you're ignorant and that's scary

I asked four factually-based questions that you have not answered, yet I'm ignorant.

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I'm on my phone at a bar about to meet up with a woman. You should do the same

I'd rather not. That would be considered cheating, since I'm already engaged to a beautiful woman.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

You know what, nevermind. Your generation will be dead soon enough

Typical liberal move, Dan Hicks. If someone disagrees with you, just wish them death. Nice edit though.

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I'd rather not. That would be considered cheating, since I'm already engaged to a beautiful woman.

Best point you've made all afternoon. How about this, make a black friend

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Of course he's going to say that. That's about as politically correct as it gets. His job is to get the best talent possible to commit to play for Alabama. The majority of top talent happens to come from the black demographic, which supposedly feels oppressed. He's not going to speak with his balls and risk pissing them off.

Which brings up a great point here. What's the difference between him saying how he actually feels and the consequences that come with it vs. the NFL players protesting and us (the fans) protesting them?

Maybe. But given that he lives and works in a state that fought to defeat the very flag you honor, that in many ways proudly stands on that heritage to this day, and who, just this week, had one party nominate for the U.S. Senate a man twice removed from the Alabama Supreme Court for refusing to follow the rulings of the US Supreme Court, I would say his remarks carry weight well beyond political correctness. I seriously doubt that all the Bama Boosters enjoyed his comments, yet he made them anyway. Then again, he may have just spoken his true beliefs, regardless of fallout. Believe it or not, it happens.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Typical liberal move, Dan Hicks. If someone disagrees with you, just wish them death. Nice edit though.

Wish them? Lol. Acknowledge it's coming, well...yeah

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Best point you've made all afternoon. How about this, make a black friend

I don't make friends based on skin color. I make friends based on common interests and content of character. And this is my last response to someone that doesn't answer any of the questions I asked.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Wish them? Lol. Acknowledge it's coming, well...yeah

Why even bring it up?

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I don't make friends based on skin color. I make friends based on common interests and content of character. And this is my last response to someone that doesn't answer any of the questions I asked.

So you don't have a black friend I'd venture to guess. Get some perspective

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Everything is racist nowadays.

Yes, everything...even Dr. Seuss books.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...as-racist.html

If you don't want to read the article, let me sum it up for you. "Dr. Seuss’s illustrations are steeped in racist propaganda, caricatures, and harmful stereotypes."

Wow! Who knew?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think staying in the locker room might border on disrespectful. Kneeling to me is not, it's just making a statement, much as Smith and Carlos did decades ago.

[chalupacollects]

If these athletes even want to try and make a difference they should stop declining invitations to the White House. They should go and have an open and honest dialogue with the president about their concerns. That would be newsworthy and maybe a start. Doing what they are doing during the national anthem is taking the easy way out. They have an audience they should use it...

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't really see the connection to the discussion. The court has its own procedures in place and as far as I know there is no direct law that requires you to rise, although the judge has authority to hold you in contempt for not following their directives. None of that really has anything to do with the NFL, the protests, the spirit behind the protests, anti-military sentiment, or enjoying personal freedoms at work. A judge would hold you in contempt for disrupting court proceedings, not for exercising a freedom.

Teachers and union employees go on strike all the time. They aren't fired for it because it's their right to strike. A strike is a form of protest.

it's just communism like these worthless protests are. entitled little children throwing tantrums. unions, protests, marching...etc Marxist, smug, rubbish.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Best point you've made all afternoon. How about this, make a black friend

how about you judge your friends based on character and not in their ability to make you presentable to your communist cohorts?

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

And you're an ignorant asshole. The flag is a symbol, the constitution is what this is all about and the actual execution of it's intent and purpose. You can bastardized the point all you want but that is what this symbolic gesture is all about and for the record you don't have to be black to support it, you just need to see things from a perspective that is inherently foreign to you

and your communistic ignorance shows it's face again. This has nothing to do with the constitution. zero, zilch, nada.

the first amendment issues you protections from the govt that's it. It does not apply to your job, your private life...etc You have a right to not be arrested for saying things the govt doesn't like. But, you are not free from facing consequences for your choices. If you say things I don't like, I can fire you. If you say things in a place of business they don't like they can ask you to leave. If you refuse, you can be arrested for trespassing.


oh, and btw, if you are going to call people tools and be a smug little twat, bring that to me man, I'm not a victim nor am I frightened of internet tough guy communists on the internet. Grow up, your POV is for children.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

You're right, I'm not going to speak for a black person. Why? I'm white. It's not my place to speak for them (unlike those who speak for Native Americans when it comes to Chief Wahoo). I am, however, an American, which affords me the right to voice my opinion.

Thank you for feeling my post wasted your time essentially because I am white, and because I am white my opinion apparently shouldn't matter on this subject.

Unless you are a middle class suburban white liberal, then you and only you understand the plight of poor people and how they should let you speak for them as you know that they aren't capable of speaking for themselves! In fact, it would be better if the government took care of them!

I find it so funny how the modern left is so suffering from cognitive dissonance that they can't see how racist, elitist and demeaning they sound.

[bnorth]

Wow some interesting stuff in this thread. I will only comment on protesting, I believe we all have the right to do it just not at work.

[bbcardzman]

This is not a protest, it is just a new way for idiots to show their stupidity.
Just like the morons who burned the Lincoln bust to protest slavery.
You can't fix stupid.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, everything...even Dr. Seuss books.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...as-racist.html

If you don't want to read the article, let me sum it up for you. "Dr. Seuss’s illustrations are steeped in racist propaganda, caricatures, and harmful stereotypes."

Wow! Who knew?

Dunno bout Seuss, but as our sensitivies and sensibilities have evolved, there is certainly a lot in the pop culture of even a few decades ago that through today's eyes seems racist and or sexist.

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

and your communistic ignorance shows it's face again. This has nothing to do with the constitution. zero, zilch, nada.

the first amendment issues you protections from the govt that's it. It does not apply to your job, your private life...etc You have a right to not be arrested for saying things the govt doesn't like. But, you are not free from facing consequences for your choices. If you say things I don't like, I can fire you. If you say things in a place of business they don't like they can ask you to leave. If you refuse, you can be arrested for trespassing.


oh, and btw, if you are going to call people tools and be a smug little twat, bring that to me man, I'm not a victim nor am I frightened of internet tough guy communists on the internet. Grow up, your POV is for children.

Looks like Mississippi finally got the internet. Welcome to the 21st century

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Looks like Mississippi finally got the internet. Welcome to the 21st century

Goodness. Lay off the personal attacks.

By the way, you've posted a couple times since I last responded. Still haven't read a single answer to any of my questions.

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Goodness. Lay off the personal attacks.

By the way, you've posted a couple times since I last responded. Still haven't read a single answer to any of my questions.

F off Kyle May

2) If this is about the Constitution, then can you please show me where in the Constitution it states who these rights are and are not extended to?

They are extended to all, in theory. It's the lack of execution of these rights that's in question

- Why aren't these athletes protesting the violence in the south side of Chicago, that just recorded its 500th official homicide of 2017 this past weekend?
Can't answer that but unsure of the relevance as it relates to this issue?

- If these minorities/people of color were truly oppressed, why is 68% of the NFL and 74% of the NBA black? These athletes are representing the other 99.9 of those who aren't professional athletes

- Why is the leader (Colin Kaepernick) of this "movement" a supporter of Fidel Castro, a truly oppressive dictator? No idea, and he's not the leader as far as I know...he just was the first to stick his neck out

- Why don't these athletes - or anyone who feels oppressed by America for that matter - find another country to live in if the US is truly that oppressive?
Or just be uber patriotic and stop watching sports

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

F off Kyle May

Just wanted to save that.

You too Cliff

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

You too Cliff

Can I be included too, Dan?

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Can I be included too, Dan?

Yes you may

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dunno bout Seuss, but as our sensitivies and sensibilities have evolved, there is certainly a lot in the pop culture of even a few decades ago that through today's eyes seems racist and or sexist.

Yes, Peter, I agree. But do we re-write history, remove plaques, tear down statues, etc? Where do we stop? There are certainly some racists in the HOF too. Do we give them the boot and ignore all their accomplishments? It has to stop somewhere. The political correctness is out of hand.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, Peter, I agree. But do we re-write history, remove plaques, tear down statues, etc? Where do we stop? There are certainly some racists in the HOF too. Do we give them the boot and ignore all their accomplishments? It has to stop somewhere. The political correctness is out of hand.

OK David this has to stop!!! This is your second post in this thread I agree with, what is next, Jake making a post I agree with.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Q1: If this is about the Constitution, then can you please show me where in the Constitution it states who these rights are and are not extended to?

A1:They are extended to all, in theory. It's the lack of execution of these rights that's in question

Response to A1: So it has nothing to do with the Constitution, but rather how we as Americans act. Good, good. We're learning something called accountability today.


Q2: Why aren't these athletes protesting the violence in the south side of Chicago, that just recorded its 500th official homicide of 2017 this past weekend?

A2:Can't answer that but unsure of the relevance as it relates to this issue?

Response to A2: Well, if they're protesting social injustice, the murder of people would certainly fall under that category. There were 762 homicides last year, and another 500+ this year. Last year, 4334 people were shot (one person every two hours essentially), and almost all of those victims were black. The police shot 25 people, and they were all mostly armed or dangerous in other ways. Isn't this in the realm of what the athletes are protesting? Why are they ignoring Chicago? Doesn't fit their racial/victim narrative, does it?


Q3: If these minorities/people of color were truly oppressed, why is 68% of the NFL and 74% of the NBA black?

A3: These athletes are representing the other 99.9 of those who aren't professional athletes

Response to A3: Those percentages extended into the college ranks as well. Also, what about higher up figureheads such as Ben Carson, Sheriff David Clarke, etc., who work first hand with those would be "oppressed"? Why don't they see it the same way as the athletes?


Q4: Why is the leader (Colin Kaepernick) of this "movement" a supporter of Fidel Castro, a truly oppressive dictator?

A4: No idea, and he's not the leader as far as I know...he just was the first to stick his neck out

Response to A4: He started the "movement", therefore he lead the movement, hence him being the "leader". And that still somewhat dodges the main point of the question, that the person they are all supporting and standing (or kneeling) with is a supporter of an oppressive dictator.


Q5: Why don't these athletes - or anyone who feels oppressed by America for that matter - find another country to live in if the US is truly that oppressive?
A5: Or just be uber patriotic and stop watching sports

Response to A5: I am incredibly Patriotic, and I have stopped watching the NFL and NBA.

Responses are underneath your answers. And my responses, for the most part, are legitimate responses to spark discussion, which is what we need to have more of. Not the childish name calling that goes on.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, Peter, I agree. But do we re-write history, remove plaques, tear down statues, etc? Where do we stop? There are certainly some racists in the HOF too. Do we give them the boot and ignore all their accomplishments? It has to stop somewhere. The political correctness is out of hand.

Amen.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by packs

The NFL can stop paying them any time it likes. It knows the consequences of that decision. These players hold immense power in their profession and I am of the opinion that it's great to see how they choose to wield that power.

Actually they hold no power. The NFL has a rule against what they are doing. The players have a labor agreement that they signed. The league has every right to discipline the players, they are just too weak to do it. The NBA came out today and said that it will punish players who protest during the national anthem.I guess you think the NBA will go out of business.

I saw a poll today. 62% plan to watch less football. 36% plan to buy less merchandise. 32% plan to not attend a game they previously planned on attending. I will not watch the NFL until they change their policy. I had planned on going to a 2nd game this year, no longer. I have no problem with players protesting, just not the anthem. What they are doing is disrespecting those who have served and died for this country. Claiming they are protesting something else doesn't change that fact.

[earlywynnfan]

Thought this was well said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNJUsE7pEs4

[cammb]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Racist? Not Racist? Whatever!
Military? Non-military? Whatever!

Do you believe that anybody has the right to protest while at work? While on the job? While being paid?

You are correct, David. If you decide to protest anything at work you can be fired. Your constitutional rights are not protected while at work, therefore the owners should come down on them , but it will never happen for fear they will be called a racist. They are as pathetic as their employees.

[nolemmings]

Your statement is oversimplistic. It is by no means clear that a player could be fired for failing to stand for the anthem. In fact, I would bet he cannot.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcede.../#3333baa12976
Moot point, though--ain't gonna happen.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Your statement is oversimplistic. It is by no means clear that a player could be fired for failing to stand for the anthem. In fact, I would bet he cannot.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcede.../#3333baa12976
Moot point, though--ain't gonna happen.

You can be fired for voting for the wrong candidate. Employers have wide latitude in hiring and firing as long as they don't make it obvious they are discriminating.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Your statement is oversimplistic. It is by no means clear that a player could be fired for failing to stand for the anthem. In fact, I would bet he cannot.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcede.../#3333baa12976
Moot point, though--ain't gonna happen.

You certainly can be fired if you are protesting anything at your work place , on company time , without the owners permission

[KMayUSA6060]

Only government employees are protected from termination of employment by the First Amendment, I believe.