Do You Like the Provenance on the Flip?

[oldjudge]

Grading services should put in the flip what they can verify. How do they know where the card came from? Do they know if a card belonged to Mantle, or Stengel, or Bray--No. They just know what they were told by the submitter. I don't like it as I think it could be abused and would certainly not pay more for a card with it.

[Arazi4442]

Been on this forum for over a year now and I guess I should have asked earlier but where did the term “flip” come from? Why not just holder, case, etc.?

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Arazi4442

Been on this forum for over a year now and I guess I should have asked earlier but where did the term “flip” come from? Why not just holder, case, etc.?

I've always called it a label.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Arazi4442

Been on this forum for over a year now and I guess I should have asked earlier but where did the term “flip” come from? Why not just holder, case, etc.?

I'm not positive, but I believe it's a leftover from the very early days of coin authentication. The earliest certificates didn't even have a picture, and were replaced with ones that did because there was too much switching of lesser items. The certificate with photo got replaced with a holder for a similar reason.


There's a sort of coin holder that folds over sort of like a T201, but equally. With each side being a roughly 2x2 pouch. Some dealers who had certified coins would put the coin in ones side, and the folded up certificate in the other side. On non- certified coins it was usually a label with the coin information. Since you could flip it open to see the back, or read the information and usually price, it was the flip.


Those holders were PVC, and were already almost entirely out of favor by the 1970's, there are probably still some non- pvc ones made, but they're not common anymore as smaller coins can slide around and get a little wear.


Or I could be totally wrong.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Grading services should put in the flip what they can verify. How do they know where the card came from? Do they know if a card belonged to Mantle, or Stengel, or Bray--No. They just know what they were told by the submitter. I don't like it as I think it could be abused and would certainly not pay more for a card with it.

I read the write up when the owned by Mantle collection hit the market. It sounded like there was very clear provenance to prove he owned the cards.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Grading services should put in the flip what they can verify. How do they know where the card came from? Do they know if a card belonged to Mantle, or Stengel, or Bray--No. They just know what they were told by the submitter. I don't like it as I think it could be abused and would certainly not pay more for a card with it.

Having a label pedigreed is more then the submitter stating to the grading co. that so & so once owned this.
Many auction houses auction off lots from ballplayers who want to get rid of stuff or from ballplayers families
after the ballplayer passed away.
As an example, Hunts had a ton of stuff consigned from Ted Williams daughter after he passed away.
Trophy's, autographs, cards, clothing, coins...you name it.
This was 1 of the lots that I picked up & was happy w/ the provenance.

[T206Collector]

I love the "Black Swamp Find" provenance because you know the source, and the card wasn't altered. Folks who cross them over to SGC without the provenance are losing out big time on a future sale.

As I mentioned a few months ago, the Black Swamp Find made a significant appearance in the April 19 Heritage Auction. For those wondering whether the provenance of that collection still carries any cachet, consider the following:

A PSA 1.5 Jennings Red, horribly off-center, and with an actual tear in the border, sold for $1,560, because it was the only version of Jennings found in Black Swamp six years ago:

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

The same auction also featured a very clean PSA 5 Jennings Red, well-centered, with no tears, and it sold for just a tic above at $1,680:

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

Collectors are plainly paying for this provenance. Keep them in the BSF holders!

[Jobu]

I like it if the card came from a major find, really famous collector, or has a well-documented and available history. Not interested in anything else.

I would love to get this one slabbed as Jefferson Burdick Collection but have never asked if anyone would do it.

[Jay Wolt]

Jobu, SGC wouldn't slab mine w/ a pedigree, stating that anyone can stamp these.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Jobu, SGC wouldn't slab mine w/ a pedigree, stating that anyone can stamp these.

They wouldn't add Burdick's name to this one either when I asked them...

[CobbSpikedMe]

I have three of Lionel Carter's old cards and one of Frank Nagy's. They all have the provenance on the flips. I really like having them labeled as such to know I have a card that these collecting legends once owned. I could care less about such provenance as The Collector's Collection.

I also like when a find is noted like the Black Swamp Find, Skydash, etc. I think it just adds a little extra something special to the card.

I'm glad to read that so many of you wouldn't pay a premium for these. That means I can pick them up for reasonable prices and not have to pay a premium either.

[SetBuilder]

Will they put anything you want on the label?

I feel like sending in a card with something weird, like "Collection of Fred McPinperton" and see if it actually lowers the market price of the card.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Will they put anything you want on the label?

I feel like sending in a card with something weird, like "Collection of Fred McPinperton" and see if it actually lowers the market price of the card.

I think that "Harris Collection" already does that.

[GasHouseGang]

I picked up a couple with Lionel Carter on the label, which I think is great since he's such a hobby pioneer. However, I don't think I would have paid extra for that designation.

[DeanH3]

I also dig cards from early pioneers.