Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I own the double signed Davy Jones from this find... Is it real?

I believe all signed T206 cards from that find -- other than Secretary-signed Covaleski, the William-signed Powell and the Larry-signed Joe Doyle -- to be authentic.

Without committing that every autographed T206 authenticated prior to October 2015 is the real deal, and putting aside for the moment Rube Marquard generally for other reasons including, but certainly not limited to, the evidently large population and the evidence that his wife may very well have signed some of his T206 cards late in life, I think the most critical eye towards authenticity has to begin with the Robert Edward and Hunt Auctions in the Fall of 2015.

By way of background, in November 2013, the prices on signed T206 cards really went through the roof. Heritage held the largest signed T206 card collection auction since the 2007 find. Not only did this auction feature the first offer of a signed T206 Rucker (throwing pose) since Jeff Morey’s sale in 2001, but the prices realized were more or less astronomical, when compared with the most recent public sales of many of these cards. Ironically, though Marquard is the most popular signed T206 subject, not a single Marquard was available. However, the other "usual suspects" Doyle and Snodgrass were featured, as well as a nice Tommy Leach portrait. For collectors looking to add HOFers, you had three to pick from -- Flick and Crawford, who both went for over $6,500 -- and the cleanest signature on a Wheat imaginable, which helped explain the nearly $4,000 price tag.

Importantly, and I think this is very import -- no new discoveries of unknown signed poses were here, but still wonderful cards nonetheless.

However - and perhaps due to these record-breaking prices, during the winter of 2015-16, a flurry of signed T206 cards popped up in REA and Hunt -- a whopping 6 of which poses had never been publicly identified before (at least as far back and including Jeff Morey's auction of his collection through Mastro in 2001):

In Fall 2015 REA...
1. Frank Baker
2. Jesse Tannehill



In Fall 2015 Hunt...
3. Murray Batting



In Spring 2016 Hunt...
4. Rhoades Hands at Chest



In Spring 2016 REA...
5. Conroy Fielding
6. Sullivan



If your cards did not come from or after the time of these auctions you are not necessarily clear, of course, but I would not let the current trauma affect you. There was nothing surprising about the cards that appeared on the market between 2001 and 2015, all of which are consistent in terms of the players that folks like Jeff Morey were getting in person at Cooperstown and through the mail from the mid-1950s through the 1970s.

In 2015, the landscape shifted and started to include a lot of one-off names. That's not to say all of them aren't legitimate, but Sullivan and Rhoades -- obscure names for autograph seekers -- certainly aren't.

What remains to be seen is whether the consignor(s) of these cards -- and I believe Baker, Tannehill, Rucker, Parent, Sullivan and Conroy all came from the same consignor -- got the cards from the forger unknowingly/unwittingly, whether there were good ones mixed in with the bad ones, or whether they're all just fake regardless of whether the consignor was in on it. REA is in the process of trying to figure this out on his end, and Hunt has been contacted by interested collectors as well. SGC and REA have both indicated the FBI will be contacted.

So, short story, if your signed T206 card(s) can be traced to a sale prior to October 1, 2015, I do not believe that your card would be affected by this latest string of forgeries. Of course, that does not mean you're necessarily in the clear. It just means your cards or collection up to that point probably wasn't impacted by this current attack on the hobby.

As I have said for years and years on Net54, a collection of pre-war cards, signed or not, is only going to be as valuable as the ability and reputation of the TPG/TPA to certify the card/signature.

I will be sure to keep posting about this scourge on my collection and my hobby, and I will have no shame -- and only sadness -- in identifying those cards in my collection that have been shown by credible evidence to be frauds.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

In Spring 2016 Hunt...
4. Rhoades Hands at Chest

The first 3 from Hunt are bad. Odds are so is the Zimmermann.

[The Nasty Nati]

I have a bad feeling about these too. Fairly newly graded, red SGC label, and ball point pen signature on the Cicotte. The Marquards look like the one that opened pandoras box.

Cicotte was Hunt Auctions July 2018 (Sold for $11k) https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...=222&lot_qual=
Marquards was Hunt Auctions March 2017 (Both sold for over $1k)

[calvindog]

10-15 years ago it was rare to find a signed T206. Now they're all over the place and I don't know many people who didn't find this unusual. I've never bought one and never will for that reason, among many. There's too many frauds in this hobby as it is so you really need to stick to materials that can't be faked. And even then you need to worry about shill bidders, the Mastros of the world and their coconspirators. Best to avoid adding risk to an already risky hobby. And we've all been burned once at least so no one is above this.

[Thromdog]

Seller: colleenscollect
Feb 22, 2015

[The Nasty Nati]

Whelp I think I found the Cicotte one. There seems to be additional minor creasing and scuffs done to the autograph version, but as we saw with the Flick this forger likes to add a few new creases from time to time. The centering of the card on the front and back are identical. And the crease on the lower right side by his hand are identical. There is even an identical crease on the back in the sweet caporal border in the lower right side. The corners of the card are identical. And both have Fact. 30 backs. Not as concrete as when I found the Rhoades, but I'm 99% certain this is it. Take a look at the links to see for yourself.

This card went from a $65 card to a $11k card.

Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eet-1817520994

Hunt Auctions link:
https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...=222&lot_qual=

[theshleps]

is anyone checking their 1933'S, exhibits, play balls, other tobacco, etc?

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Whelp I think I found the Cicotte one. There seems to be additional minor creasing and scuffs done to the autograph version, but as we saw with the Flick this forger likes to add a few new creases from time to time The centering of the card on the front and back are identical. And the crease on the lower left side by his hand are identical. So are the corners of the card. And both have Fact. 30 backs. Not as concrete as when I found the Rhoades, but I'm 99% certain this is it. Take a look at the links to see for yourself.

This card went from a $65 card to a $11k card.

Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eet-1817520994

Hunt Auctions link:
https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...=222&lot_qual=

That scan is blurry so I can't tell for sure. I was looking at that same Cicotte card on Worthpoint earlier today and just wasn't 100% sure on it.

[Pat R]

The Flick was purchased from Scott by the same buyer.

Flick Sale.jpg

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Whelp I think I found the Cicotte one. There seems to be additional minor creasing and scuffs done to the autograph version, but as we saw with the Flick this forger likes to add a few new creases from time to time. The centering of the card on the front and back are identical. And the crease on the lower left side by his hand are identical. So are the corners of the card. And both have Fact. 30 backs. Not as concrete as when I found the Rhoades, but I'm 99% certain this is it. Take a look at the links to see for yourself.

This card went from a $65 card to a $11k card.

I was the underbidder on that one. I’ve never been so happy to be outbid.

[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Whelp I think I found the Cicotte one. There seems to be additional minor creasing and scuffs done to the autograph version, but as we saw with the Flick this forger likes to add a few new creases from time to time. The centering of the card on the front and back are identical. And the crease on the lower right side by his hand are identical. There is even an identical crease on the back in the sweet caporal border in the lower right side. The corners of the card are identical. And both have Fact. 30 backs. Not as concrete as when I found the Rhoades, but I'm 99% certain this is it. Take a look at the links to see for yourself.

This card went from a $65 card to a $11k card.

Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eet-1817520994

Hunt Auctions link:
https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...=222&lot_qual=

I'm now 100% convinced that this is the Cicotte card. I just noticed that there is also a crease in the lower left side of the card too that matches the auto version. And since we now have several examples where the forger added his own scuffs and creases, this card has to be the one.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

I'm now 100% convinced that this is the Cicotte card. I just noticed that there is also a crease in the lower left side of the card too that matches the auto version. And since we now have several examples where the forger added his own scuffs and creases, this card has to be the one.

Strange that this forger had the foresight to add extra wear in order to disguise the card, yet at the same time, be so reckless in signing other cards with easily identifiable surface features.

Possible 2nd, unrelated forger?

[swarmee]

All four are from the same submission number.

[SetBuilder]

The Zimmermann is very similar to this exemplar.

[oldjudge]

This can’t be that hard. Start with the auction houses since they have the most to lose. Ask who consigned the cards. If they refuse post their names here and I bet they will face losing a lot of business. They should be the most interested in solving this issue since it will diminish their realizations if this is not solved.
Clean Sweep sells a lot of autographed material. Steve Verkman should be leading the charge to catch these forgers.

[yanks12025]

So one of the sellers who has sold several of the cards is a member here and the other guy is a big ebay seller.. Has any of these people replied to messages willing to offer help?