1952 mantle probstein

MattyC · #1 05-11-2019, 10:18 AM

I'll ping him and ask him; I was just worried for him about the paper loss issue and once he said it was good, I had to take another call before we could further our conversation. Off to grab a coffee and coach some little league now.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 05-11-2019, 10:27 AM

You would think the seller could explain that in the listing.

Republicaninmass · #3 05-11-2019, 10:29 AM

Looks like something stuck on to it.

Sean1125 · #4 05-11-2019, 10:43 AM

Larry, Peter, John, and others--

There are many posts in this thread that are incorrect. Ted is 100% correct.

I am the owner of this 1952 Mickey Mantle.

This card was sold to me within a complete set of '52 Topps cards. When the owner sent the original scan it was in an extremely old PSA holder and he was completely up front that there was something on the card-- he had communicated with Joe Orlando at the time who said it was extra paper stuck to the card, but that decade ago PSA still agreed with the issued grade.

I shared many of the concerns that were in this thread, resulting in me contacting the CEO of CU, Joe Orlando, and President of PSA, Steve Sloan, to have the card reviewed for accuracy. They reviewed the card and disclosed that this is, in fact, extra paper and they agree with the original assessment of the card. At this point, they reholdered the card in the newest light house label and I sent it in to Probstein123 to sell.

I have personally held this card in my hand and spent time scrutinizing the card, the centering, the corners, the registration, and the extra paper on the card. The card is beautifully centered, strong for a 5, and I do hope it sells for a slight premium above other 5's due to its attractive attributes.

I really appreciate all of the community involvement in policing cards, auctions, and grades. I know this behavior comes from a place of love, appreciation, and devotion for the hobby.

That being said, I do not condone the false accusations of paper loss, an inaccurate grade, or any other comments or erroneous 'facts' that are being posted on this thread. These opinions have overstepped a line and crossed to inappropriate, false statements that may damage the sale of my item. I will only ask once that they cease immediately.

Kind Regards,

Sean

Peter_Spaeth · #5 05-11-2019, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Larry, Peter, John, and others--

There are many posts in this thread that are incorrect. Ted is 100% correct.

I am the owner of this 1952 Mickey Mantle.

This card was sold to me within a complete set of '52 Topps cards. When the owner sent the original scan it was in an extremely old PSA holder and he was completely up front that there was something on the card-- he had communicated with Joe Orlando at the time who said it was extra paper stuck to the card, but that decade ago PSA still agreed with the issued grade.

I shared many of the concerns that were in this thread, resulting in me contacting the CEO of CU, Joe Orlando, and President of PSA, Steve Sloan, to have the card reviewed for accuracy. They reviewed the card and disclosed that this is, in fact, extra paper and they agree with the original assessment of the card. At this point, they reholdered the card in the newest light house label and I sent it in to Probstein123 to sell.

I have personally held this card in my hand and spent time scrutinizing the card, the centering, the corners, the registration, and the extra paper on the card. The card is beautifully centered, strong for a 5, and I do hope it sells for a slight premium above other 5's due to its attractive attributes.

I really appreciate all of the community involvement in policing cards, auctions, and grades. I know this behavior comes from a place of love, appreciation, and devotion for the hobby.

That being said, I do not condone the false accusations of paper loss, an inaccurate grade, or any other comments or erroneous 'facts' that are being posted on this thread. These opinions have overstepped a line and crossed to inappropriate, false statements that may damage the sale of my item. I will only ask once that they cease immediately.

Kind Regards,

Sean

Sean -- I would respectfully suggest the auction description explain the spot?

Sean1125 · #6 05-11-2019, 11:06 AM

Peter,

That's a great idea. I will reach out and have that done.

sflayank · #7 05-11-2019, 11:21 AM

I'm sorry but there is no way on this planet that a card either missing paper or having paper stuck to it can possibly grade 5......I'm still willing to bet its paper missing...but either way I would demand PSA refund my money..that's a joke if PSA says it's a 5 with paper stuck on it...is it stuck on with glue...or is it magic paper

nolemmings · #8 05-11-2019, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflayank

I'm sorry but there is no way on this planet that a card either missing paper or having paper stuck to it can possibly grade 5......

Agree. Frankly the white spot jumps out and is distracting as heck. Makes you wonder--if I had pulled that card back in the day and it truly was added paper, I would have rubbed or flicked or toyed with it in effort to get it off, probably thereby scratching the card or otherwise making it worse.

1952boyntoncollector · #9 05-12-2019, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflayank

I'm sorry but there is no way on this planet that a card either missing paper or having paper stuck to it can possibly grade 5......I'm still willing to bet its paper missing...but either way I would demand PSA refund my money..that's a joke if PSA says it's a 5 with paper stuck on it...is it stuck on with glue...or is it magic paper

never understood when PSA grades something people say ' no way its a PSA X'

Well IT IS a PSA X....they graded it.

You can say no way its an EX condition card.....but its been graded by PSA already and its graded what is graded.. there of course is large spectrum within grades and sometimes that overlap frankly but for all of those 'nice cards for the grade' there has to be 'bad card for the grade' not talking abut any specific card...

so instead of saying no way thats a PSA X i guess you can say 'bad card for the grade' who knows.

i have mentioned this many times but without a TPG.......i cant imagine how many deals would get broken after sales over disagreement over what 'near mint' means after the buyer gets the card in hand..... at least PSA and TPG have probably prevented 30% if not more sales from not being broken

bobbyw8469 · #10 05-11-2019, 11:24 AM

We have ALL at one time or another, been the benefactor of "gift" grades. Sean admits the card was in a super old holder, that was a time when the grading might not have been so stringent. If I had owned this card today, and sent it in for grading, would I have received a '5'? Probably not. But the onus is on PSA to stand by their grading, not Sean, who is doing nothing no different than any other seller here would do.

Peter_Spaeth · #11 05-11-2019, 11:27 AM

The color of the spot looks similar to his uniform, if that is relevant.

vintagetoppsguy · #12 05-11-2019, 11:33 AM

Paper loss, extra paper or whatever, this card is still over graded. At the very minimum, this card should have a PD qualifier. Of course PSA is not going to admit fault. Does anybody seriously believe they're going to stroke a check for $20K for some incompetent grader?

Edited to add: I've seen cards with extra paper before, so I know it happens. But the ink still applies over the extra paper as the sheet passes through, so that in the end it appears as a bubble on the surface. How did the "extra paper" miss the ink pass? I'm calling BS on this.

steve B · #13 05-12-2019, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Edited to add: I've seen cards with extra paper before, so I know it happens. But the ink still applies over the extra paper as the sheet passes through, so that in the end it appears as a bubble on the surface. How did the "extra paper" miss the ink pass? I'm calling BS on this.

That's mostly correct. Mostly. But there are a lot of other things that can happen. The scan just isn't good enough to show them so I could tell.

Extra paper can get on the card after the ink is applied, and stick to the wet ink.

Paper can also get stuck on post production as well.

The cardstock on 52s is white paper over the darker base material. Th upper layer can be damaged, folded over, printed on then folded back, leaving a "blank spot" (VERY uncommon, it can happen, but I haven't seen one. )

There can be a paper "inclusion" some bit of stuff that gets into the paper while it's being made. Usually a gentle bump, they can also be less gentle and stick out more. And the ink gets rubbed off pretty easily. I have a T206 with a pretty rough but small inclusion, ink rubbed off, it looks like a tiny spot of paper loss, but it's smooth. It did have a strong impact on the grade.

I'm weird, and like that sort of stuff.

If I had the dough to get a 52 Mantle, this would interest me.

Promethius88 · #14 05-13-2019, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Larry, Peter, John, and others--

There are many posts in this thread that are incorrect. Ted is 100% correct.

I am the owner of this 1952 Mickey Mantle.

This card was sold to me within a complete set of '52 Topps cards. When the owner sent the original scan it was in an extremely old PSA holder and he was completely up front that there was something on the card-- he had communicated with Joe Orlando at the time who said it was extra paper stuck to the card, but that decade ago PSA still agreed with the issued grade.

I shared many of the concerns that were in this thread, resulting in me contacting the CEO of CU, Joe Orlando, and President of PSA, Steve Sloan, to have the card reviewed for accuracy. They reviewed the card and disclosed that this is, in fact, extra paper and they agree with the original assessment of the card. At this point, they reholdered the card in the newest light house label and I sent it in to Probstein123 to sell.

I have personally held this card in my hand and spent time scrutinizing the card, the centering, the corners, the registration, and the extra paper on the card. The card is beautifully centered, strong for a 5, and I do hope it sells for a slight premium above other 5's due to its attractive attributes.

I really appreciate all of the community involvement in policing cards, auctions, and grades. I know this behavior comes from a place of love, appreciation, and devotion for the hobby.

That being said, I do not condone the false accusations of paper loss, an inaccurate grade, or any other comments or erroneous 'facts' that are being posted on this thread. These opinions have overstepped a line and crossed to inappropriate, false statements that may damage the sale of my item. I will only ask once that they cease immediately.

Kind Regards,

Sean

Please pardon my French and with all due respect, who gives a sh*t?!!? This is not directed at you Sean, but folks that want to belittle the card and point fingers at TPG's. If you don't agree with the grade on a slab, any slab, bid accordingly. The onus falls on the bidder, not the seller to get as much information as they can before hitting the bid button. If you believe it is actually paper loss, then probably best to look for another example that suits your taste. Doesn't mean that someone else doesn't like the card a lot. We can also slam PSA for not getting a grade right or making a mistake. Thing is, if you are spending that kind of coin on a card, it's probably not the first baseball card you have purchased and I'm guessing you have done a little shopping around and some research. You wouldn't spend $30k+ on a car by just looking at a picture of it and not knowing anything about it. This isn't the 1970's where you order a card sight unseen out of a magazine and hope the seller graded it like you do. Plenty of resources available at our fingertips in this day an age to make informed decisions.
At the end of they day, we are collectors and should collect what we enjoy without being chained to the monetary worth of our collections. Hell, the majority of us are going to pass with a vast amount of our collections intact and our heirs are going to sell it off with little to no knowledge of of the actual cards anyhow.

Hxcmilkshake · #15 05-13-2019, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Please pardon my French and with all due respect, who gives a sh*t?!!? This is not directed at you Sean, but folks that want to belittle the card and point fingers at TPG's. If you don't agree with the grade on a slab, any slab, bid accordingly. The onus falls on the bidder, not the seller to get as much information as they can before hitting the bid button. If you believe it is actually paper loss, then probably best to look for another example that suits your taste. Doesn't mean that someone else doesn't like the card a lot. We can also slam PSA for not getting a grade right or making a mistake. Thing is, if you are spending that kind of coin on a card, it's probably not the first baseball card you have purchased and I'm guessing you have done a little shopping around and some research. You wouldn't spend $30k+ on a car by just looking at a picture of it and not knowing anything about it. This isn't the 1970's where you order a card sight unseen out of a magazine and hope the seller graded it like you do. Plenty of resources available at our fingertips in this day an age to make informed decisions.

At the end of they day, we are collectors and should collect what we enjoy without being chained to the monetary worth of our collections. Hell, the majority of us are going to pass with a vast amount of our collections intact and our heirs are going to sell it off with little to no knowledge of of the actual cards anyhow.

Uh, duh, that's all we were doing....pointing out the description which was lacking and even had drivel like "looks nicer" .just a chuckle that's all. I hope Sean makes a fortune on it.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Fuddjcal · #16 05-14-2019, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Larry, Peter, John, and others--

There are many posts in this thread that are incorrect. Ted is 100% correct.

I am the owner of this 1952 Mickey Mantle.

This card was sold to me within a complete set of '52 Topps cards. When the owner sent the original scan it was in an extremely old PSA holder and he was completely up front that there was something on the card-- he had communicated with Joe Orlando at the time who said it was extra paper stuck to the card, but that decade ago PSA still agreed with the issued grade.

I shared many of the concerns that were in this thread, resulting in me contacting the CEO of CU, Joe Orlando, and President of PSA, Steve Sloan, to have the card reviewed for accuracy. They reviewed the card and disclosed that this is, in fact, extra paper and they agree with the original assessment of the card. At this point, they reholdered the card in the newest light house label and I sent it in to Probstein123 to sell.

I have personally held this card in my hand and spent time scrutinizing the card, the centering, the corners, the registration, and the extra paper on the card. The card is beautifully centered, strong for a 5, and I do hope it sells for a slight premium above other 5's due to its attractive attributes.

I really appreciate all of the community involvement in policing cards, auctions, and grades. I know this behavior comes from a place of love, appreciation, and devotion for the hobby.

That being said, I do not condone the false accusations of paper loss, an inaccurate grade, or any other comments or erroneous 'facts' that are being posted on this thread. These opinions have overstepped a line and crossed to inappropriate, false statements that may damage the sale of my item. I will only ask once that they cease immediately.

Kind Regards,

Sean

Very nice, Thanks! Good Luck with it!

sflayank · #17 05-14-2019, 08:27 PM

Obviously the hobby has reached the stage where noone cares....I can see clear as day the paper stuck to the card
Which would automatically drop the grade
I can see with 100% certainty there is paper missing to the left of the yankee logo..I can see with 100% certainty there is writing on the back of the card and I can see with 100% certainty brown staining on the bottom front
The card should grade a 1...I hope Sean makes a ton.....but let's be honest the card is a 1 by definition....
Just the fact that he gave the card to probstein I stead of an auction house tells me alot

CMIZ5290 · #18 05-12-2019, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Looks like something stuck on to it.

For once in a lifetime, I agree with Jed, I mean Ted

Republicaninmass · #19 05-12-2019, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

For once in a lifetime, I agree with Jed, I mean Ted

Wow, even a blinnd squirrel finds a nut!

For the record if a seller cracks as PSA MC card, he can resell in an SGC holder without disclosing. Betcha like that one too.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

CMIZ5290 · #20 05-12-2019, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Wow, even a blinnd squirrel finds a nut!

For the record if a seller cracks as PSA MC card, he can resell in an SGC holder without disclosing. Betcha like that one too.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Which card are you referring to Jed? Got to love the English and spelling....

Republicaninmass · #21 05-12-2019, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Which card are you referring to Jed? Got to love the English and spelling....

Now in and sgc 7.5 holder on the bst boards.

When you have to quote "straight " grades and their sold prices, something might be "crooked"

steve B · #22 05-12-2019, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Now in and sgc 7.5 holder on the bst boards.

When you have to quote "straight " grades and their sold prices, something might be "crooked"

What sort of problem is there? It's not like people can't see it isn't centered well. and 7.5 seems pretty reasonable.

frankrizzo29 · #23 05-12-2019, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Now in and sgc 7.5 holder on the bst boards.

When you have to quote "straight " grades and their sold prices, something might be "crooked"

I am really confused by these posts, I own and purchased that 9OC donlin in the Fall Goldin auction and still own it. Why are pictures of it being used in this thread?

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