Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

steve B · #1 05-30-2019, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sheesh.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2162

That's one very sophisticated alteration.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 05-30-2019, 09:28 AM

Oh my.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2287

Fuddjcal · #3 05-30-2019, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Oh my.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2287

Nice trimmed Mantle. Good Work Brent Mastro, scammer extraordinaire.

Can't wait for this to crumble on top of ole poor Brent Mastro. There is always some guy trying to scam the system and Brent is THAT guy.

joshuanip · #4 05-30-2019, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Nice trimmed Mantle. Good Work Brent Mastro, scammer extraordinaire.

Can't wait for this to crumble on top of ole poor Brent Mastro. There is always some guy trying to scam the system and Brent is THAT guy.

I disagree with your opinion on Brent. He built himself a fine mousetrap, worth more than this nickel and dime scam (relative to his enterprise value). Problem is he grown with his volume and there hasn�t been quality control measures commensurate to that growth. I think implementing card reviews at levels based on card value, and transparency on the process, would go a long way. It I don�t think he was in on it.

I read the shilling posts, read underneath it as well.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #5 05-30-2019, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuanip

I disagree with your opinion on Brent. He built himself a fine mousetrap, worth more than this nickel and dime scam (relative to his enterprise value). Problem is he grown with his volume and there hasn�t been quality control measures commensurate to that growth. I think implementing card reviews at levels based on card value, and transparency on the process, would go a long way. It I don�t think he was in on it.

I read the shilling posts, read underneath it as well.

You are entitled to live in the vast minority. Have you read everything?

joshuanip · #6 05-30-2019, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

You are entitled to live in the vast minority. Have you read everything?

I admit haven't read everything. Will try to catch up this weekend.

My opinions were a bit heuristic given PWCC's business is doing too well to risk for small $.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #7 05-30-2019, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuanip

I admit haven't read everything. Will try to catch up this weekend.

My opinions were a bit heuristic given PWCC's business is doing too well to risk for small $.

That's why you need to read up. It's not small money, even by PWCC's standards.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 05-30-2019, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuanip

I disagree with your opinion on Brent. He built himself a fine mousetrap, worth more than this nickel and dime scam (relative to his enterprise value). Problem is he grown with his volume and there hasn’t been quality control measures commensurate to that growth. I think implementing card reviews at levels based on card value, and transparency on the process, would go a long way. It I don’t think he was in on it.

I read the shilling posts, read underneath it as well.

His issues have nothing to do with quality control. They have to do with knowingly maintaining relationships with bad people. Not opinion, by the way. Admitted fact.

benjulmag · #9 05-30-2019, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Oh my.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2287

"oh my", "sheesh", "mercy", "good golly miss molly" (not sure if I got that one right)�..and probably others I can't remember. Peter, you are very descriptive.

steve B · #10 05-30-2019, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Oh my.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2287

I'd love to know how that edge roughening is done. That in my opinion is impressive. Criminal, but impressive.

Peter_Spaeth · #11 05-30-2019, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

I'd love to know how that edge roughening is done. That in my opinion is impressive. Criminal, but impressive.

Trade secret.

steve B · #12 05-30-2019, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Trade secret.

Even the great ones get caught and their methods exposed.

https://d2jf3tgwe889fp.cloudfront.ne...8pp147-163.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_Sperati

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran�o...(stamp_forger)

Some of the Sperati and Fournier stuff so devalued the originals that the forgeries often sell for more.

darwinbulldog · #13 05-30-2019, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

I'd love to know how that edge roughening is done. That in my opinion is impressive. Criminal, but impressive.

Also starkly demonstrates the stupidity of rewarding cards with higher grades for having poor characteristics (i.e., rough cuts).

steve B · #14 05-30-2019, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Also starkly demonstrates the stupidity of rewarding cards with higher grades for having poor characteristics (i.e., rough cuts).

A rough cut that was factory wouldn't bother me, and considering the lax production standards of the time, I don't think a factory rough cut should be penalized. Of course, edge wear on a rough cut should be, and it's usually more obvious than on a clean edge.

That someone can create a rough edge without having it look like its fake or removing enough to make it appear trimmed... That's some involved fakery.

Peter_Spaeth · #15 05-30-2019, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

A rough cut that was factory wouldn't bother me, and considering the lax production standards of the time, I don't think a factory rough cut should be penalized. Of course, edge wear on a rough cut should be, and it's usually more obvious than on a clean edge.

That someone can create a rough edge without having it look like its fake or removing enough to make it appear trimmed... That's some involved fakery.

I've been undecided always about a factory rough cut that results in a badly angled corner. I think a deduction is warranted but get the opposite argument.

steve B · #16 05-30-2019, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I've been undecided always about a factory rough cut that results in a badly angled corner. I think a deduction is warranted but get the opposite argument.

What I was told by SGC is that the grade is a more cumulative thing. One of the cards I asked about has fantastic corners, and still has a visible impression of the pressure plate that holds down the stack of paper being cut. It also has a flake of paper loss on one corner - less than the amount of rounding I've seen on higher graded cards, a tiny wrinkle in the border about halfway up the left side, a bit of mis-registration, and a bit less than average centering. So it only got a 50 because all the tiny problems brought it down.

I'd agree that if the cut is rough enough to make a corner look odd, that should be counted against.

Piratedogcardshows · #17 05-30-2019, 03:49 PM

I have been keeping up with everything and it is sad indeed. Early in my T210 collecting, I use to like having the highest graded examples whenever possible. I think I have about 300 that fit that description. I havent been (lucky) enough to be as picky the last couple of years. If SGC is anywhere near as affected as PSA/Beckett seem to be with alterations esp. trimming, then I may just bust all the plastic and go raw. It was fun while the illusion lasted.

Goudey77 · #18 05-30-2019, 03:56 PM

A competent TPG who clearly defines restoration and is a great example of what can be done for cards.

Glad you naysayers of my earlier threads have now gravitated to focusing on the core TPG problem.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Coaches Corner exposed on TV report	RichardSimon	Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports	15	11-26-2018 08:34 AM
Say what you want about PWCC.................	russkcpa	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	37	11-22-2018 02:33 PM
Wanted: Beaters, chewers, trimmers, ripped and torn cards	david_l	T206 cards B/S/T	0	11-11-2018 07:26 AM
Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	343	09-23-2006 02:30 PM
super trimmers	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	5	11-13-2003 11:19 PM