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#451
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As a general proposition card doctors cater to the market. When low pop commons were the thing, they were slicing the cards that were notoriously off center to make cards that would barely qualify as 8s. I strongly suspect that with the centering mania of the last couple of years, they are focused on finding cards they can make into perfectly centered ones.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#452
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Just make sure they aren't centered 48 48.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#453
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That would create some interesting advertising fodder for anybody starting such a new company and having to compete with Collectors Universe's version. I can only imagine the slogans that one could come up with asking potential submitters why on earth they would want to give their business to a company run by the same people who created the mess in the first place. Last edited by benjulmag; 05-30-2019 at 08:52 AM. |
#454
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Would anyone be surprised if search warrants are to come......
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#455
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Best not to crow about someone elses negligence when they have plenty of their own.
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#456
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#457
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#458
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Known unknown
My money (as I continue to buy) is that this will blow over. Known unknown risk for prewar, unknown risk for modern. Will this impact prices in short term, definitely. But medium (supply dries if prices take a hit) longer term (demand curve) supply and demand dynamics will prevail.
Not holding our breath that the culpable parties take a knee for the better of our industry. Economics are better for them to take a wait and see approach as soft short term prices are tolerable for them (not us) - unless they take this as an opportunity to innovate and take market share. At minimum, the heightened awareness and ability to track cards (through the case) does make longer term profitability of cheating our hobby more risky. Which is a good thing. Can we have some FBI investigations in here! Will pile more dirt in our industry but definitely help longer term in placing punitive consequences for these criminals. |
#459
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#460
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#461
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Can't wait for this to crumble on top of ole poor Brent Mastro. There is always some guy trying to scam the system and Brent is THAT guy. |
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#463
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#464
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I read the shilling posts, read underneath it as well. |
#465
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And if there's a pattern of one person always doing one customers submissions, what does it say about their internal security if that's not noticed? |
#466
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#467
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Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#468
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-30-2019 at 09:22 AM. |
#469
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I'd love to know how that edge roughening is done. That in my opinion is impressive. Criminal, but impressive. |
#470
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Trade secret.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#471
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I don't know about PSA, but when I had some done at a show by SGC the grader/graders weren't in the booth, but somewhere else. I never got to see them work, or even see them at all.
The handful of expensive stuff I had done rather than mail it was all very simple gradings. A few "A" cards, a 10/1, and one that got a pretty generous 40. Some of the submissions shown on BO are pretty big, 100+ cards. Do they do subs that big at a show, or just accept them for later grading? |
#472
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Interesting quote from Betsy on Sports Card Radio's love piece. Apologies if already posted.
PWCC Director of Communications Betsy Huigens wrote in an email to Sports Card Radio that "We are very aware of who Gary Moser is." The same was true 10 years ago, and perhaps longer.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-30-2019 at 09:46 AM. |
#473
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#474
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Even the great ones get caught and their methods exposed. https://d2jf3tgwe889fp.cloudfront.ne...8pp147-163.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_Sperati https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franço...(stamp_forger) Some of the Sperati and Fournier stuff so devalued the originals that the forgeries often sell for more. |
#475
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#476
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Gives you a warm fuzzy feeling.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#477
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-30-2019 at 10:40 AM. |
#478
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cross posting this list of potentially bad cards
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1296884
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#479
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#480
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If that’s the message you got out of my post then it’s time for you to take a functional literacy comprehension course.
__________________
Successful transactions on Net54 with balltrash, greenmonster66; Peter_Spaeth; robw1959; Stetson_1883; boxcar18; Blackie |
#481
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Also starkly demonstrates the stupidity of rewarding cards with higher grades for having poor characteristics (i.e., rough cuts).
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#482
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Outside of Jeff L's post, all of the outrage on the last 3 pages is directed at Moser and PWCC (unless someone posts differently while I'm writing this). Many of the posts even suggest that PSA and/or Collectors Universe should expand their operations to become even more powerful than they already are. The power they already wield is the bulk of the problem here... It's what is motivating the "doctors" to alter/submit to PSA, and their Registry is what's driving the insane prices paid for these altered cards. They are making the Card Doctors rich.
Increasing PSA's presence will only add to the problem. I understand that most people here have a vested interest in PSA, with tens of thousands of dollars tied up in their holders. But check out the 2 latest reveals on BO... The '51 Bowman Mantle, from which Moser profited tremendously, and the '52 Mays, in which he actually lost money (a chemical burn resulted from his "cleaning" process). The common denominator in all of this is PSA's failure to detect anything. So aside from the "vested interests", why is such blind faith put in PSA to fix it? It's like asking the Mayor of Flint, MI to fix their water crisis. |
#483
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The more I read that post over on Blowout, the more BLOWN AWAY I am at the shear depth and mass quantity of cards that have been tainted by this guy.
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#484
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It's not confined to him by any means Bob. He just left an easier path to retrace.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#485
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I am afraid that the holder is now more important than its contents, if for no other reason than too many people have too much invested in the slab. It’s always about the money. PSA is too big to fail.
__________________
Galleries and Articles about T206 Player Autographs www.SignedT206.com www.instagram.com/signedT206/ @SignedT206 Last edited by T206Collector; 05-30-2019 at 12:39 PM. |
#486
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#487
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Correct. There are more card doctors than you can count. Moser is one... many more have been exposed on BO.
The common denominator is PSA authorization. Last edited by perezfan; 05-30-2019 at 12:42 PM. |
#488
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That someone can create a rough edge without having it look like its fake or removing enough to make it appear trimmed... That's some involved fakery. |
#489
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#490
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I'd agree that if the cut is rough enough to make a corner look odd, that should be counted against. |
#491
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__________________
Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others. |
#492
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Cant imagine why
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#493
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To get the cards into the plastic holder so they can be sold for more money than if they were left raw. Once a trimmed card gets a grade, it is for all intents and purposes not a trimmed card anymore.
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Galleries and Articles about T206 Player Autographs www.SignedT206.com www.instagram.com/signedT206/ @SignedT206 |
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Last edited by drcy; 05-30-2019 at 02:20 PM. |
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So there is one specific collector I know out there who is a big supporter of PWCC’s guy Brent who is also obsessed (I mean OBSESSED) with centering and has shown me some great cards over the years. I just hope 1). He isn’t one of the bad guys which has been my fear but now as i write this, 2) I hope he hasn't been scammed in large size through all this because I quite liked the guy when i met him at Nationals in the past few years. I have seen people snickering at him on other forums, so I am not too hopeful.
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#497
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j@ff dr*m
__________________
Check out my aging Sell/Trade Album on my Profile page HOF Type Collector + Philly A's, E/M/W cards, M101-6, Exhibits, Postcards, 30's Premiums & HOF Photos "Assembling an unfocused collection for nearly 50 years." Last edited by HRBAKER; 05-30-2019 at 02:43 PM. |
#498
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I have been keeping up with everything and it is sad indeed. Early in my T210 collecting, I use to like having the highest graded examples whenever possible. I think I have about 300 that fit that description. I havent been (lucky) enough to be as picky the last couple of years. If SGC is anywhere near as affected as PSA/Beckett seem to be with alterations esp. trimming, then I may just bust all the plastic and go raw. It was fun while the illusion lasted.
Last edited by Jason; 05-30-2019 at 02:51 PM. |
#499
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I'll spam this video one more time to provide an example of a competent TPG
A competent TPG who clearly defines restoration and is a great example of what can be done for cards.
Glad you naysayers of my earlier threads have now gravitated to focusing on the core TPG problem. |
#500
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Graded I think is just where the hobby was by 2014 - I think it was to the point where seeing nice raw cards made you wonder why they weren't graded esp. with unfamiliar sellers. I don't like doing it, but I buy graded cards without a back scan and sometimes even when the scan of the front isn't great because the grade gives me an idea of the condition. Even when I've had instances where I was disappointed, I always keep the card, just not worth the hassle of the return for me. I think the TPGs are doing ok with the grading part, its the authentication part that's the issue. Maybe these two things should be broken out and done by different teams. One team should determine whether the card is genuine and if so whether it has been doctored. Then a completely different team put the number grade on it.
Last edited by TanksAndSpartans; 05-30-2019 at 03:02 PM. |
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