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I attended an Ivy League school and so did my siblings. There’s no mule kicking incidents in our family. |
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Awful lot of cards BOUGHT by Moser with feedback left
"We know very well who Gary Moser is" One the top buyers, conserver, and consignors that deals solely with PWCC
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors Last edited by Republicaninmass; 05-30-2019 at 05:14 PM. |
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Martin, quit while you're behind.
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-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
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I think my original message is starting to gain some traction based on the other threads. So I may quit while...
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Martin, if you have any concern for Brent you should really stop. You’re not helping him.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
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I think he was also offering a explanation on why you think that way. This is just a wild guess. |
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And to take a step back, I also find it difficult to believe that you think so little of us collectors (or consumers as you put it), that we lack the agency to help set where the red line is in our own hobby. These “gatekeeper” companies exist at our pleasure, as I hope they’re all soon finding out. In fact, I thought you were calling on everyone to have an opinion and make it known so we can achieve a new, better understanding. we have no agency plain and simple. But people are quick to criticize when vocal companies like PWCC want to stir the pot and introduce change and discussion
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________ Thank God for companies that are looking out for us like PWCC... You really don't see why that is what people focus on in your posts? We all agree to one degree or another that there is a TPG problem. But you think the solution is to trust the company that appears to be actively ripping people off. A few of us beg to differ. Saying "The TPG's are bad." Doesn't excuse intentional fraudulent activity.
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Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 05-30-2019 at 05:23 PM. |
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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@Goudey77: “we have no agency plain and simple“
That’s so depressingly cynical if you believe that. It’s also factually wrong: have a look at corndog, 312, and superdan at BO. Three dudes sitting in their boxers living in their mom’s basement (metaphorically, probably) are poised to topple one, and if you have your way, maybe an additional two or three industry titans, in both the criminal and civil spheres. Last edited by RiceBondsMntna2Young; 05-30-2019 at 05:30 PM. |
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I'm sorry to say this is bigger than them. It's up to the big dogs to declare what's up if they decide to throw us a bone. Sorry to sound cynical. I've had a busy work week. |
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And...so what? Chuck may be rudimentary, you're condescending. Feels like a push. I thought you said you wanted a civil discussion, but your response to a silly insult is to try and impress everyone with you and your siblings Ivy League attendance? I literally did laugh out loud at this, so thanks for that.
Anyway, let's play this little game. While I didn't attend an Ivy League school, I do happen to have a Mensa card. Does that qualify me? Quote:
If you just want to say you don't think it gets that far, that's fine - add another item to the list of things that certain people here don't agree with you on. I don't believe for one second that you don't understand any of these arguments, you just choose not to directly address it and try to divert attention to a comic book video. Even though comic books and cards are actually really different, which you also don't seem to want to acknowledge, but that's fine. You've made your point and posted your video a number of times now. Good work. Thanks, and happy collecting! How'd I do? |
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#13
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He has been coming at you, that's fair.
I don't share your opinion that this stays out of a courtroom somewhere, or that some agency doesn't end up involved. It only takes one person who ended up with one of these things to decide they don't care about the refund and would rather stand on principle. There are plenty of angles and choices to pursue, including eBay (although that would probably be the toughest fight of all). Also, not sure what the value tally has come to yet but it's increasing every day. $1m will get some media eyeballs, if a story or two goes out in the right places don't underestimate how quickly this thing could take off outside our little collector world. Comic books makes sense that there would be more restoration, there's more pages, thinner stock, etc. I'm not opposed to restoration in cards, I just think it's already been pretty well defined. I also heavily object to PWCCs idea of what is and isn't restoration/conservation, if for no other reason than that definition appears to be motivated by what is best for business, not what's best for the hobby. I don't think anyone includes trimming as an acceptable technique, but if you can't tell by holding the card it didn't happen, even with photos of before and after? Sorry, not buying it. Get a ruler, and stop with all the tolerance garbage. At a minimum, I think PSA has some explaining to do, a fair bit of refunding to do and some pretty extensive changing/improvement to do so they actually enforce their published rules. They also have some enforcement to do, which includes permanent bans of bad actors. If that includes people/companies who act as agents for those bad actors as well, so be it. If they don't, I don't know how that improves anything. Last edited by bounce; 05-30-2019 at 09:58 PM. |
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I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar. The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here My Online Trading Site: Click Here Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com My Humble Blog: Click Here |
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In the past "Beckett can't tell us what a rookie card is. " "Nobody can tell us rookie cards are really worth more" "We don't need anyone to tell us what condition a card is in" (Ok, that one is still going, but the grading companies have gotten a LOT of traction) "No price guide can tell me what a card is worth" "The grade should be about how well preserved a card is, not if it was printed right or cut so it was well centered" (Ok, that last one was probably just me.. ) The only instance I can think of where a big idea pushed by a company didn't really go in a hobby was PSE slabbing stamps. But then they were fighting 100+ years of putting them in albums, and nobody could figure out a good way of doing that with small slabs. |
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You make good points, but I don't think collectors are going to accept a new definition of what an altered card is. We still debate what a rookie card is. And what a card is worth. How many times have you laughed when a dealer pulls out a Beckett at a show when you ask what a card costs?
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I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar. The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here My Online Trading Site: Click Here Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com My Humble Blog: Click Here |
#17
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I'd laugh at the Beckett thing now, but in the early 90's? Pretty much every dealer did that, even some of the better ones. Most of the guys I would go to either mostly did stuff that wasn't in Beckett, or used it as a very rough guide. there were a lot of discussions then about what something was in Beckett for and whether the arrows were up or not. And for most people, if you just go with the standard definition of the rookie card they go along. Nevermind if the player has 15 cards issued earlier, whatever the book or website says the rookie card is - that's the one. (Or 100 in the case of modern... ) If the claim that alterations are acceptable is consistent over several years, eventually what will happen is most of the people who object stop fighting as hard, or as vocally. (keeping up the current level for say 5-10 years would be difficult, some will most won't) And the handful of people who buy it becomes greater until the objectors are in the minority. I was generally against grading, but as I get older, I graded a few cards. I figure someday my family will sell them, and the ease of sale and extra value added would make that easier. It was also nice to see some of my nicer old cards get decent grades, sort of recognition that the card was actually that nice and not altered. Seeing some of the stuff all the companies have done the last few years, fixing problems they caused without changing the grade, refusing to admit having been wrong, and now this stuff where they are either grossly incompetent, or actively passing altered cards for a particular customer.. I'm against it again. I might go back to grading a handful every couple years if they get things together again, but that may be a long way in the future. |
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Hoover: Kent is a legacy, Otter. His brother was a ’59, Fred Dorfman. Flounder: He said legacies usually get asked to pledge automatically. Otter: Oh, well, usually. Unless the pledge in question turns out to be a real closet-case. Otter, Boon: Like Fred.
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors Last edited by Republicaninmass; 05-30-2019 at 09:06 PM. |
#19
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I just had to check. We weren’t classmates. And I’ve never used my educational pedigree as a means of intimidation.
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FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER. GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES 274/1000 Monster Number Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-24. Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served. If you want fries with your order, just speak up. Thank you all. Now nearly PQ. |
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