Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[steve B]

The description on the Morris is really minimal.

"One of over 15,000 cards, lots, and sets up for bid in our 6th Auction of 2016. Click on the link above to view the other PWCC auction lots."

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1316003

It's a strange case, I believe they're the same card.
But the new scan shows some surface specks the old scan doesn't.
Maybe a difference between running the scanner with speck removal or not?
The other things I notice are the mark/damage mid right, and the upper left corner.
I can't tell from the scans exactly what's going on there.
It's possible the bit on the right is either paper loss, or nearly paper loss where there's a flap folded over.
The upper right corner looks like it had a tiny crease, or layering that folded over.

If they're folded over layering, folding them back in place would be a somewhat gray area. PSA has done it (see the PSA 8 71 Topps on the postwar side) If the folded over bits looked like leaving them alone would make them fall off, I would probably fold them back into place. (Risky, if they're that bad, folding them back in place can make them come off. )
If they're rebuilt paper loss and a rebuilt corner that's not good.

If it was mine, I'd print the earlier scan, write up what I think was done and just keep that together with the card.
Unless you can get a decent return and find another.

[KingFisk]

I skated for a few days without any, but now have had two PWCC purchases show up on Captain Spaulding's list. Both were low grade Southern Leaguers. I couldn't find any Whitman111 prior purchases of those cards on VCP to do my own detective work, and they aren't obviously worked on (if at all), but it still sucks. I have no plans to sell, but there will always be a taint on them as they sit in my collection. No doubt there are more.

[Peter_Spaeth]

This outed sub seemed right up the Board's alley so posting it for reference if anyone wants to check their cards.

27898937 1910 E98 Set Of 30 Honus Wagner BLUE PSA 2.5 GD+ (PWCC)
27898938 1909 E95 Philadelphia Caramel Ty Cobb PSA 2 GD (PWCC)
27898939 1909 E95 Philadelphia Caramel Christy Mathewson PSA 4.5 VGEX+ (PWCC)
27898940 1911 D304 General Baking Co. Ty Cobb PSA 1.5 FR (PWCC)
27898941 1909 E90-1 American Caramel Cy Young BOSTON PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898942
27898943 1895 N300 Mayo's Cut Plug Cap Anson PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
27898944 1909-11 T206 Clark Griffith PORTRAIT PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898945 1909-11 T206 Addie Joss PITCHING, SOVEREIGN PSA 3.5 VG+ (PWCC)
27898946
27898947 1909-11 T206 Johnny Evers WITH BAT, CHICAGO ON SHIRT PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
27898948
27898949 1909-11 T206 Frank Chance RED PORTRAIT PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898950 1909-11 T206 Iron Man McGinnity PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898951 1909-11 T206 Cy Young CLEVELAND, BARE HAND SHOWS PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898952 1909-11 T206 Nap Lajoie PORTRAIT PSA 1 PR (PWCC)
27898953 1909-11 T206 Rube Waddell PORTRAIT PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898954 1909-11 T206 Bill Dahlen BROOKLYN PSA 4.5 VGEX+ (PWCC)
27898955 1909-11 T206 Addie Joss PITCHING, TOLSTOI PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
27898956 1909-11 T206 Walter Johnson PORTRAIT PSA 2 GD (PWCC)
27898957 1909-11 T206 Cy Young BARE HAND SHOWS PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898958 1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb BAT OFF SHOULDER, SC FACTORY 42 PSA 2 GD (PWCC)
27898959 1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb RED PORTRAIT, POLAR BEAR PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898960 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
27898961 1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb BAT ON SHOULDER PSA 2.5 GD+ (PWCC)
27898962 1909-11 T206 Bill O'Hara ST. LOUIS, POLAR BEAR PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898963 1909-11 T206 Ray Demmitt ST. LOUIS, POLAR BEAR PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898964 1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb GREEN PORTRAIT PSA 3 VG (PWCC)
27898965 1888 N162 Goodwin Champions Fred 'Sure Shot' Dunlap PSA 4.5 VGEX+ (PWCC)
27898966 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
27898967 1888 N28 Allen & Ginter Mike 'King' Kelly PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898968 1888 N28 Allen & Ginter Mike King Kelly PSA 5.5 EX+ (PWCC)
27898969 1888 N28 Allen & Ginter Charles Comiskey PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
27898970 1888 N28 Allen & Ginter John Clarkson PSA 4.5 VGEX+ (PWCC)
27898971 1888 N28 Allen & Ginter Cap Anson PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898972 1888 N28 Allen & Ginter Cap Anson PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898973 1888 N28 Allen & Ginter John Clarkson PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC
27898974 1888 N28 Allen & Ginter Miss Annie Oakley RIFLE SHOOTER PSA 7 NRMT (PWCC)
27898975 1912 T227 Series Of Champions Ty Cobb PSA 3.5 VG+ (PWCC)
27898976 1912 T227 Series Of Champions Ty Cobb PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898977 1915 Cracker Jack Frank 'Home Run' Baker #2 PSA 3 VG (PWCC)
27898978 1914 Cracker Jack George Stovall #11 PSA 6.5 EXMT+ (PWCC)
27898979 1921 E121 American Caramel Series Of 80 Ty Cobb MGR. ON FRONT PSA 3 VG (PWCC)
27898980 1922 E121 American Caramel Series Of 120 Babe Ruth HOLDING BALL PSA 2 GD (PWCC)
27898981 1921 E121 American Caramel Series Of 80 Ty Cobb MGR. ON FRONT PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
27898982 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth #149 PSA 3 VG (PWCC)
27898983 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
27898984 1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig #160 PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898985 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
27898986 1935 National Chicle Football Bronko Nagurski ROOKIE RC #34 PSA 3 VG (PWCC)
27898987 1934 Goudey Lou Gehrig #61 PSA 3 VG (PWCC)
27898988 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
27898989 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
27898990 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
27898991 1948 Bowman Warren Spahn SP ROOKIE RC #18 PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
27898992 1949 Bowman Jackie Robinson ROOKIE RC #50 PSA 2 GD (PWCC)
27898993 1949 Bowman Satchell Paige ROOKIE RC #224 PSA 3.5 VG+ (PWCC)
27898994 1948 Leaf Football Sammy Baugh ROOKIE RC #34 PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC)
27898995 1948 Leaf Football Sammy Baugh ROOKIE RC #34 PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
27898996 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson ROOKIE RC #79 PSA 2.5 GD+ (PWCC)
27898997 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson ROOKIE RC #79 PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
27898998 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson ROOKIE RC #79 PSA 3 VG (PWCC)
27898999 1948 Leaf Honus Wagner #70 PSA 3 VG (PWCC)
27899000 1948 Leaf Warren Spahn ROOKIE RC #32 PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
27899001 1948 Leaf Joe DiMaggio #1 PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)

[pgconboy]

Here is every card I could find on Ebay that I purchased from PWCC. If any of these pop up and they want to drop any bad news on me... let's hear it.

Ebay # Description
142741092253 1933 Goudey Carl Hubbell #230 SGC 40/3 VG (PWCC)
352319422690 1909 E95 Philadelphia Caramel Eddie Plank PSA 2 GD (PWCC)
352319422562 1909 E90-1 American Caramel Addie Joss PORTRAIT PSA 1 PR (PWCC)
352229720185 1990 Action Packed Update Shannon Sharpe ROOKIE RC #46 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC)
401456886496 1955 Topps All-American Don Hutson SP ROOKIE RC #97 PSA 3.5 VG+ (PWCC)
352491895872 1991 Pacific Football Larry Brown ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #575 PSA 9 MINT (PWCC)
401620594019 1989 Pro Set Randall Mcdaniel ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA 9 AUTO #235 PSA 9 MINT (PWCC)
352491894929 1984 Topps Football Dwight Stephenson ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #129 PSA 7 (PWCC)
352491894850 1984 Topps Football Howie Long ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #111 PSA 8(pd) (PWCC)
352491894416 1977 Topps Football Dave Casper ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #380 PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC)
401620592354 1976 Topps Football Randy Gradishar ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #257 PSA 7 (PWCC)
352491894121 1976 Topps Football Randy White ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #158 PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
142982221164 1974 Topps Football Joe DeLamielleure ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #183 PSA 8 (PWCC)
352491894033 1973 Topps Football Jack Youngblood ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #343 PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
352491894029 1973 Topps Football Dan Dierdorf ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #322 PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
142982220873 1973 Topps Football Curley Culp ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #167 PSA 4 VGEX (PWCC)
401620591962 1973 Topps Football Jack Ham ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #115 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC)
142982220715 1973 Topps Football Art Shell ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA 10 AUTO #77 PSA 7 NRMT (PWCC)
401620591841 1972 Topps Football Rayfield Wright ROOKIE RC PSA/DNA AUTO PSA 7(oc) NRMT (PWCC)
401620591836 1972 Topps Football Larry Little ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #240 PSA 7 NRMT (PWCC)
352491893548 1971 Topps Football Willie Lanier ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #114 PSA 7 NRMT (PWCC)
401620591406 1970 Topps Football Alan Page ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #59 PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC)
352491893319 1970 Topps Football Elvin Bethea ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #43 PSA 7 NRMT (PWCC)
352491892864 1965 Philadelphia Mel Renfro ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #53 PSA 7 NRMT (PWCC)
142982218946 1965 Philadelphia Paul Warfield ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #41 PSA 7 NRMT (PWCC)
142982218808 1964 Philadelphia Jim Johnson ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #161 PSA 7 NRMT (PWCC)
401620590288 1963 Topps Football Bob Lilly ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #82 PSA 7 NRMT (PWCC)
142982218459 1963 Topps Football Deacon Jones ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #44 PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
401620589974 1959 Topps Football Bobby Mitchell ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #140 PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
401620589823 1957 Topps Football Dick Lane ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #85 PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
401566777317 1971 Topps Football Joe Greene ROOKIE RC PSA/DNA AUTO #245 PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC)
401734518537 1996 Bowman's Best Football Ray Lewis ROOKIE RC PSA/DNA AUTO #164 PSA 9 (PWCC)
352617688316 1952 Bowman Small Gino Marchetti ROOKIE RC PSA/DNA AUTO #23 PSA 3 VG (PWCC)
143132190606 1956 Topps Football Stan Jones ROOKIE RC, PSA/DNA AUTO #71 PSA AUTH (PWCC)

[Peter_Spaeth]

More cards in the same sub as the PSA 10 52 Musial. Check yours if you dare.

28639435 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson 4 7323.23
28639436 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson 6
28639437 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson 6 8400
28639438 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson 6
28639439 x
28639440 1951 Bowman Larry Doby 8.5 515.5
28639441 x
28639442 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle 7 23925
28639443 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle 6.5
28639444 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle 7
28639445 x
28639446 1952 Bowman Stan Musial 10 28100.03
28639447 x
28639448 1952 Topps Al Rosen 7 1009.99
28639449 1952 Topps Bob Elliott 9 1136.11
28639450 1952 Topps Merrill Combs 7
28639451 x
28639452 1952 Topps Dizzy Trout 8 1388
28639453 1952 Topps Ken Raffensberger 8 154.5
28639454 1952 Topps Bob Miller 8.5 1182.87
28639455 x
28639456 1952 Topps Myron Ginsberg 8.5 1397.54
28639457 1952 Topps Joe Garagiola 7
28639458 1952 Topps Joe Garagiola 8.5 787
28639459 1952 Topps Frank Shea 7.5
28639460 1952 Topps Willie Mays 7
28639461 1952 Topps Willard Nixon 5
28639462 1952 Topps Chet Nichols 7
28639463 1952 Topps Gil Coan 8 249.01
28639464 1952 Topps Sibby Sisti 5
28639465 1952 Topps Jim Busby 9 2025
28639466 1952 Topps George Metkovich 8 1005
28639467 1952 Topps Hal Gregg 5
28639468 1952 Topps Karl Drews 8 617
28639469 x
28639470 1952 Topps Herman Franks 8.5 926.76
28639471 1952 Topps Jake Pitler 8 710
28639472 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle 6 5213
28639473 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle 6 5111
28639474 x
28639475 1954 Topps Al Kaline 7 1355.99
28639476 1954 Topps Al Kaline 7
28639477 1954 Topps Willie Mays 7 867.99
28639478 1954 Topps Willie Mays 8 3150
28639479 1954 Topps Willie Mays 8.5 4425.75
28639480 x
28639481 1955 Topps Duke Snider 8 2820
28639482 x
28639483 1957 Topps Duke Snider 8
28639484 1957 Topps Pee Wee Reese 8.5
28639485 1957 Topps Ted Williams 7
28639486 1957 Topps Ed Matthews 8
28639487 1957 Topps Ed Matthews 9
28639488 x
28639489 x
28639490 1960 Topps Bob Clemente 7.5
28639491 1960 Topps Mickey Mantle 7
28639492 1965 Topps Mickey Mantle 9 15,099.99
28639493 x
28639494 1965 Topps Steve Carlton 9 1391
28639495 1978 Topps Eddie Murray 9
28639496 1952 Bowman Large Don Paul 9 2075
28639497 1952 Bowman Large Ollie Matson 7.5 4049
28639498 1955 Bowman Doak Walker 9 1025
28639499 1957 Topps John Unitas 5.5
28639500 1957 Topps John Unitas 6
28639501 1957 Topps John Unitas 7
28639502 1958 Topps John Unitas 7
28639503 1948 Bowman George McAfee 9 1750
28639504 x
28639505 x
28639506 1957 Topps Footbal Checklist 1-154 Twin Blony 6.5 3706.23
28639507 1961 Fleer Wilt Chamberlain 7
28639508 1957 Topps Larry Costello 7
28639509 1957 Topps Bill Russell 7.5
28639510 1957 Topps Bob Cousey 7 1332.07
28639511 1957 Topps Bill Russell 7 14877
TOTAL: 149101.56
__________________

[Rhotchkiss]

Three 51 Mantles. Stone cold.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Every time you see another outed card, a whole sub is underneath it. Keep that in mind when people try to spin this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bumping this. If people care, I would encourage you to check your cards against this list and keep in mind new certs are being outed every day, meaning the underlying subs including those certs are at least in doubt. Unless and until we get comprehensive lists from PWCC or PSA, people are going to have to do their own diligence, if it matters to them. If it seems overwhelming, limit the focus to significant cards purchased from PWCC.

[Misunderestimated]

I was always curious about why so many cards consigned to PWCC were newly graded.....

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bumping this. If people care, I would encourage you to check your cards against this list and keep in mind new certs are being outed every day, meaning the underlying subs including those certs are at least in doubt. Unless and until we get comprehensive lists from PWCC or PSA, people are going to have to do their own diligence, if it matters to them. If it seems overwhelming, limit the focus to significant cards purchased from PWCC.

Can someone design an app or a spreadsheet that we can all use to plug in our cert numbers and the app or spreadsheet would turn back any matches to cards on the suspect list? Surely with all of the brain power we have someone on this board or BO cards can do this...

[Republicaninmass]

Probably bought 4 or 5 cards from pwcc, all low grade. Funny my co assignments didnt get much action. It must have been lack of eye appeal, or no chance to improve them

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Probably bought 4 or 5 cards from pwcc, all low grade. Funny my co assignments didnt get much action. It must have been lack of eye appeal, or no chance to improve them

This consignor must have been happy. This card is, to put it mildly, abundant in PSA 10 and sells for 125-150. There are probably 5+ BINs on ebay right now at this price. PWCC sold one for over 400.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1989-Score-...p2047675.l2557

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

That's one thing I've never understood. They sell so many cards that are what I call commodity cards at non-commodity prices. What possible reason is there for their PSA 10 (one of hundreds if not thousands, I'm too lazy to look it up) to sell for a multiple of anyone else's PSA 10. ESPECIALLY at a PSA 10. There's not supposed to be a lot of variation in 10's (besides altered and un-altered) I mean there is no sticker for a high-end 10, right?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

That's one thing I've never understood. They sell so many cards that are what I call commodity cards at non-commodity prices. What possible reason is there for their PSA 10 (one of hundreds if not thousands, I'm too lazy to look it up) to sell for a multiple of anyone else's PSA 10. ESPECIALLY at a PSA 10. There's not supposed to be a lot of variation in 10's (besides altered and un-altered) I mean there is no sticker for a high-end 10, right?

I have no idea. But of course we see these record-obliterating, inexplicable prices all the time from PWCC, and inevitably someone comes on to defend them, so I'll wait.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have no idea. But of course we see these record-obliterating, inexplicable prices all the time from PWCC, and inevitably someone comes on to defend them, so I'll wait.

There are plenty of cards I wouldn't question, but Aikman and Mattingly make no sense.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This consignor must have been happy. This card is, to put it mildly, abundant in PSA 10 and sells for 125-150. There are probably 5+ BINs on ebay right now at this price. PWCC sold one for over 400.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1989-Score-...p2047675.l2557

It's a ruse to find new unbeknownst consignors, new material for moser to work on, and commissions to be collected. .I knew it, but had to see for myself. It's ok if the winning bidder is the consignor and planned on paying, right Betsy?

[Rhotchkiss]

Some recent vintage PWCC prices compared to immediate comps. These were cards I was watching (and in the case of the Brown Lenox, that I won), which sold in this past auction for less than recent prior sales. There are many more -- as I watched many T206's and early cards sell for relatively cheap in this auction. Perhaps it was because of all the trimming/altered press. Perhaps its because nobody shilled these cards. I don't know, but the point is that while so many PWCC cards go for crazy prices (and I can name a few other AHs where that seems to happen), not all cards do. Spend what you are willing to spend; that's what I do and why I rarely am the high bidder on PWCC auctions.

1. T206 McQillan w/ bat, Brown Lenox, PSA 1: sold at PWCC for $8,600 was previously sold by REA on 10/28/18 for $9,000

2. E106 wagner Batting, PSA 5: sold at PWCC for $8,200, was previously "sold" by Mile High for $9k+ on 6/10/19 and for $10k+ on 12/16/18

3. E98 Cobb, Red, PSA 9: Sold at PWCC for $29.5k -- According to VCP, there have been 14 sales of E98 Cobb PSA 9s since 2013, and only once did an example sell for less than then PWCC one. t

4. E104-1 Mack SGC 1 ("Worlds Chanls"): Sold at PWCC for $355. Prior to that the same card sold at PWCC in February for $598, and before that, the same card traded at Mile High and Greg Bissneau (in 2014 and 2010, respectively) for approx $600.

[Throttlesteer]

I'm breathing a sigh of relief; none of my stuff is listed. However, I only checked against the PSA holders. Has anyone identified any SGC cards affected? I would guess no, given the goal was to maximize the $$$

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Last I looked there were only a couple SGC. Probably failed PSA too many times.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by RiceBondsMntna2Young

I’m waiting for a credible company to emerge so I can have them reevaluate my biggest cards.

It would be a massive undertaking as well as the need for huge hobby support to launch a new company. From day one you will have people trying to ding your credibility so being transparent is a must. At some point an altered card of some sort will seep through and the minuscule error will cost you reputation points you cant afford to lose as a new business. You also have to worry about staffing and detailed training, greedy staff, and insider fraud. If that is not enough both PSA and SGC have very good attorneys, deep assets/vested interest in the hobby, and great legal teams. Even if you are right 100% and have ample evidence against them you still lost because you would be broke before you got notice of a hearing. PSA and SGC both have their skeletons but that is the options the hobby is stuck with because that is what it wants. Educate yourself about the cards you are buying and stop giving your money away to people you don feel are credible.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Bram99

Can someone design an app or a spreadsheet that we can all use to plug in our cert numbers and the app or spreadsheet would turn back any matches to cards on the suspect list? Surely with all of the brain power we have someone on this board or BO cards can do this...

Does "find on page" work with the forum where they're posted? That would be the simplest way.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This probably merits a separate thread.

Self explanatory.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...1#post14717612

Peter- This is unbelievable....So where are we at exactly with criminal possibilities with PWCC?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Peter- This is unbelievable....So where are we at exactly with criminal possibilities with PWCC?

Dunno, I am not involved and all I have read is their statement that they are working with law enforcement.

[CMIZ5290]

I really wish Jeff L. would chime in. The more that I look into this, the more suspicious everything seems to be, and the more shocking it is, and the more guilty these fraudsters are... I always knew and suspected about the bid shilling with PWCC, but this is a whole different ball game. I'm just wondering what the legal system could possibly do. This guy and his wife have made a ton of money obviously doing things illegally....I can just about bet the house on this though....Ebay won't do a damn thing about it!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Another page of recently outed cards here.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=117

[Rhotchkiss]

Thanks Peter. I know have that thread on my phone and update it once/day holding my breath.... But I (and I am sure others) appreciate you keeping the Net54 group in the loop about the goings on at Blowout and elsewhere

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Another page of recently outed cards here.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=117

The scope of this is just jaw-dropping. I'm out of words

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

The scope of this is just jaw-dropping. I'm out of words

I hate to beat the dead horse, but this ain't nothing compared to what's out there.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Color me a simple-minded purist I guess but, monetary values aside, this just makes me sad. Take for instance the T206 Lundgren that was at the top of one of the exposed lists. It was "improved" from a PSA 2.5 to a PSA 6. That was a nice looking 100 + year old card I would have been proud to own just as it was. I would have been happy to have cracked it out and placed it in my binder. Now, it has been tainted, altered, whatever you want to call it. Its value as a pure historical artifact has been ruined IMO.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Meet the new Leafs. Not quite the same as the old Leafs.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=118

[Peter_Spaeth]

Half the border missing?
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2979

[perezfan]

Geez... look at the amount of air space between the card's left border and the left edge of the recessed portion of the slab. You could fit 2 strands of spaghetti (or 4 vermicelli) into that gaping void.

And the right side trim job is horrendous- especially at the top right corner. A shame that they ruined a very nice "5". Can't the idiot at PSA immediately see that there is 50% more white border top-to-bottom, than there is left-to-right? It really makes one believe that this "oversight" could be intentional.

NEAR MINT... what a joke! More fine quality work from your “friends” at PSA.

[Johnny630]

Here is the scary thing we are only discovering one card doctors bad cards.... there are many more bad dudes out there who do bad things to cards this guy was just ballzy enough to do it with same eBay name and auction house over and over again ... how many are slicker then him? I’d venture to say several....how many licks till the center of a tootsie pop? The World Man Never Know....

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Here is the scary thing we are only discovering one card doctors bad cards.... there are many more bad dudes out there who do bad things to cards this guy was just ballzy enough to do it with same eBay name and auction house over and over again ... how many are slicker then him? I’d venture to say several....how many licks till the center of a tootsie pop? The World Man Never Know....

The world will truly never know... but apparently you don't even have to be much slicker than him. Many of these alterations are readily apparent at first glance!

We now have photos of Moser, Orlando and "Brentsy" Huigens. How about a nice group shot of PSA's grading staff...

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Half the border missing?
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2979

There is no question in my mind, after seeing some of these cards before and after, that at least some of this scandal was not mere incompetence but rather a conspiracy to defraud.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think that's the thinnest Leaf I've seen yet. Mercy.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The world will truly never know... but apparently you don't even have to be much slicker than him. Many of these alterations are readily apparent at first glance!

We now have photos of Moser, Orlando and "Brentsy" Huigens. How about a nice group shot of PSA's grading staff...

Omg so funny !! Three Blind Mice !

[1952boyntoncollector]

Any actual lawsuits yet on behalf of a buyer of a PSA graded card in which he submits the card was negligently graded previously and PSA and the buyer didnt feel whatever PSA offered to him/her was enough to to resolve the issue so a lawsuit was filed?

If zero lawsuits with all of those buyers of these 'issue' cards, then we need to just drop the issue of the law coming to play into this.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Any actual lawsuits yet on behalf of a buyer of a PSA graded card in which he submits the card was negligently graded previously and PSA and the buyer didnt feel whatever PSA offered to him/her was enough to to resolve the issue so a lawsuit was filed?

If zero lawsuits with all of those buyers of these 'issue' cards, then we need to just drop the issue of the law coming to play into this.

Huh?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Speechless at these Leaf Baughs. The number of registry sets affected could be significant.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=121

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Speechless at these Leaf Baughs. The number of registry sets affected could be significant.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=121

and zero lawsuits?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Speechless at these Leaf Baughs. The number of registry sets affected could be significant.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=121

I can see a new PSA label coming out to re-certify these high end cards....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

and zero lawsuits?

The wave of outings has been during the past month. I wouldn't expect lawsuits yet.

[1952boyntoncollector]

A month is a long time. When you hear of any issue in the news...its only takes a few days to hear of a lawsuit filed ..but i get it that baseball card collecting isnt the BP oil spill

There is also statute of limitations issue but fraud usually can extend those timelines etc...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

A month is a long time. When you hear of any issue in the news...its only takes a few days to hear of a lawsuit filed ..but i get it that baseball card collecting isnt the BP oil spill

There is also statute of limitations issue but fraud usually can extend those timelines etc...

There is a rush sometimes in large cases because plaintiffs' lawyers are competing to be the first-filed suit. 99 percent of people who own these cards don't even know about them yet probably. And people would have to go through the review process with PSA first as well.

[calvindog]

A month isn’t a long time at all. Efforts are being made to get refunds from various parties without the need for expensive litigation. Why would someone sue unless there is no other recourse? And the fraud has just been uncovered. That’s when the statue of limitations just starts to run. This thing is in the bottom of the first inning.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There is a rush sometimes in large cases because plaintiffs' lawyers are competing to be the first-filed suit. 99 percent of people who own these cards don't even know about them yet probably.

I think he’s confusing class action litigation - which isn’t happening here - with individuals suing under the PSA guarantee.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think he’s confusing class action litigation - which isn’t happening here - with individuals suing under the PSA guarantee.

And it's hard to sue on the guarantee unless you've first asked PSA to make good on the guarantee and weren't satisfied with the outcome.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And it's hard to sue on the guarantee unless you've first asked PSA to make good on the guarantee and weren't satisfied with the outcome.

LOL of course. But there should be a flood of $1000 lawsuits nevertheless by now. Even as refunds are being paid.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

A month isn’t a long time at all. Efforts are being made to get refunds from various parties without the need for expensive litigation. Why would someone sue unless there is no other recourse? And the fraud has just been uncovered. That’s when the statue of limitations just starts to run. This thing is in the bottom of the first inning.

Right but knowing the minds of many collectors, it would not be stretch that at least one of them is not happy with the refund being offered. Expensive litigation happens all the time for things that dont cost as much as the litigation as you know..