Is CC Sabathia a Hall of Famer?

Vintageclout · #1 06-22-2019, 07:07 AM

3.71 lifetime ERA; a horrific 1.26 WHIP and here�s the worst stat of all: only ONE season with a sub-3.00 ERA (and that was a 2.70 Figure). This means even at his ultimate �peak�, he was not putting up earth-shattering numbers. After the 2.70 ERA, I believe his best figure was 3.17. Total �compiler�. He has only averaged 13 wins per season AND he pitched for great Indian and Yankee teams who both provided plenty of run support. Hall of Famer? Not in my book, but as others have accurately stated in this post, he will eventually get it.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #2 06-22-2019, 09:19 AM

Well you do have to look at that ERA in context. His ERA+ is 117, so he was 17% better than the league average pitcher. In an era where scoring is up so much the raw number can be misleading.

I certainly find him better than Jack Morris who "only" won 254 games and had a 3.90 ERA with an ERA+ of 105.

I'd also take him over Burleigh Grimes whose ERA was 3.53 but his ERA+ was only 108.

Oh and he beats the pants off of them in WHIP too.

I guess my big issue is there are a SLEW of pitchers I'd put in before him, but I'd have put them in before Morris too. Luis Tiant, Tommy John, even Jim Kaat. However you can unscrew a light bulb, but not a HOF, unless you're in favor of throwing guys out.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 06-22-2019, 09:32 AM

I always thought Rick Reuschel was quite a bit better than jack Morris and maybe some others in the Hall.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #4 06-22-2019, 10:26 AM

good call Resuchel is also on my list, just forgot about him. He's probably higher than John and Kaat, neck and neck with Tiant for me.

Tabe · #5 06-22-2019, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Well you do have to look at that ERA in context. His ERA+ is 117, so he was 17% better than the league average pitcher. In an era where scoring is up so much the raw number can be misleading.

I certainly find him better than Jack Morris who "only" won 254 games and had a 3.90 ERA with an ERA+ of 105.

I'd also take him over Burleigh Grimes whose ERA was 3.53 but his ERA+ was only 108.

Oh and he beats the pants off of them in WHIP too.

I guess my big issue is there are a SLEW of pitchers I'd put in before him, but I'd have put them in before Morris too. Luis Tiant, Tommy John, even Jim Kaat. However you can unscrew a light bulb, but not a HOF, unless you're in favor of throwing guys out.

If a lot of your argument for a guy going into the Hall is "well, he's better than this guy who's already in..." then the guy probably doesn't belong. HOFers stand on their own. There are lots of guys better than Harold Baines that don't belong, for example.

At least in the case of Morris, he had some dominant postseason outings, including the iconic 1991 game 7. CC? Career 4.31 ERA in the postseason while averaging under 6 innings a start.

CC had some good, even very good, years. Anything great? Nah. Sure, it's important to look at the context of when he played. Good idea. So compare him to his contemporaries - Roy Halladay. Justin Verlander. Clayton Kershaw. Zack Greinke. Madison Bumgarner. Curt Schilling. Randy Johnson. Roger Clemens. Greg Maddux. Corey Kluber. Max Scherzer. And so on. All pitched in the same eras as CC. All put up seasons (or many, many seasons) better than CC's best.

I just don't see him at HOF level.

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