Willie Mays 2003 Forged Counterfeit 2003 Topps Legends Card

[thetruthisoutthere]

Below is a link to my blog on Willie Mays Forged/Counterfeit "2003 Topps Legends" autograph cards.


https://live.autographmagazine.com/p...s-flood-market

[Wrightfan85]

Wow! Never would've thought something like that would happen.

Great work as usual Chris.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Wrightfan85

Wow! Never would've thought something like that would happen.

Great work as usual Chris.

That was funny, Andy, and thank you.

If anyone knows Ebay seller Comc_consignment, they have one of the Mays forged/counterfeit cards listed.


ComcmaysForgery-2.jpg

[Steve D]

Thank you for posting this!

I've been looking for a certified Mays signed card on ebay recently, and have been considering several of these. I noticed the sudden glut of this card on ebay, and wondered what was going on.

You just saved me from making a big mistake, and I thank you again!

Steve

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Steve D

Thank you for posting this!

I've been looking for a certified Mays signed card on ebay recently, and have been considering several of these. I noticed the sudden glut of this card on ebay, and wondered what was going on.

You just saved me from making a big mistake, and I thank you again!

Steve

Steve, thank you and you're welcome.

Probably the same source as the Jeter and Koufax forged/counterfeit cards.

[thetruthisoutthere]

And please be extra careful.

PSA has certed at least two of these.



dgmaysPSAForgery-100.jpg

dgmaysPSAForgery-101.jpg

[keithsky]

PSA probably doesn't even look at them since it's from Topps. They figure Topps did there homework on them so why waste our time we'll just collect the money and slab them and call them good.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by keithsky

PSA probably doesn't even look at them since it's from Topps. They figure Topps did there homework on them so why waste our time we'll just collect the money and slab them and call them good.

Exactly.

That's just sloppy "authenticating."

[RichardSimon]

SMH, smh.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

When talking about Mays autos, don’t forget about these.

89BB6EE8-E454-4941-8CA0-14196C87DE2E.jpg

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

When talking about Mays autos, don’t forget about these.

Attachment 367003

I will look into that, Adam.

Thank you.

Everything takes time, but thank you.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

When talking about Mays autos, don’t forget about these.

Attachment 367003

Adam, what year is that Topps card?

[thetruthisoutthere]

I found it, Adam.

Yep--Forged and Counterfeit.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Exactly.

That's just sloppy "authenticating."

That's just cashing a check.
Not much expertise needed for that.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

That's just cashing a check.
Not much expertise needed for that.

Very disappointing that this happens.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I found it, Adam.

Yep--Forged and Counterfeit.

Several sold in the past couple of months and plenty more listed right now.

[earlywynnfan]

I feel that the first fake auto in the thread closely matches all those signed 8x10 with the fake "Say Hey" hologram that we've been seeing the last couple of years.

[Baseball Fan]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh crap. I might own one of these 1996 Wille Mays.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by Baseball Fan

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh crap. I might own one of these 1996 Wille Mays.

Most collectors own at least one of the New Jersey autos. I have a Jeter. There’s also Kobe, Ali, Unitas, Koufax, Harper, Pujols, Starr and maybe a few others.

[Baseball Fan]

I took a picture of it. I don't exactly know what to look for, but I assume it's now a fake.

This is the first time in my collecting career that I KNOW something of mine is now likely a forgery, and it feels really crappy.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Baseball Fan

I took a picture of it. I don't exactly know what to look for, but I assume it's now a fake.

This is the first time in my collecting career that I KNOW something of mine is now likely a forgery, and it feels really crappy.

Unfortunately, it is a forged/counterfeit card.

[Baseball Fan]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Unfortunately, it is a forged/counterfeit card.

Oh, man. Wow. So, this is what it feels like.

Thanks for letting me know.

[Baseball Fan]

What's crazy is that I bought this in 2018 because I had heard so many shady things about the Say Hey holo and wanted to just have an example I knew for sure was real. Haha.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Baseball Fan

What's crazy is that I bought this in 2018 because I had heard so many shady things about the Say Hey holo and wanted to just have an example I knew for sure was real. Haha.

That's why when I observe and opine an autograph, I only look at the autograph.

I do not allow any other "distraction" when opining an autograph.

[thetruthisoutthere]

If anyone communicates with Ebay seller Dacardworld, hopefully someone can inform him of his forged/counterfeit Willie Mays listing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-TOPPS-...6c68%7Ciid%3A1




dcardmays-1.jpg

dcardmays-2A.jpg

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Baseball Fan

I took a picture of it. I don't exactly know what to look for, but I assume it's now a fake.

This is the first time in my collecting career that I KNOW something of mine is now likely a forgery, and it feels really crappy.

If you're buying things like that Mays during your collecting career, I can guaraneffentee you have at least 50% in your collection that are "likely forgery" Likely They ARE FORGERIES, not likely forgeries. WAKE UP!

[johnmh71]

Things are getting so bad out there, I've almost relegated myself to only buying on the B/S/T on this site.

[thetruthisoutthere]

My thread on the 1996-97 Willie Mays Topps autographed forged/counterfeit cards.


https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...s-commemorativ

[Baseball Fan]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

If you're buying things like that Mays during your collecting career, I can guaraneffentee you have at least 50% in your collection that are "likely forgery" Likely They ARE FORGERIES, not likely forgeries. WAKE UP!

Based on this situation and also your opinion, I've decided to throw my collection away except for the ones that I got in person.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

And please be extra careful.

PSA has certed at least two of these.



Attachment 366965

Attachment 366966

I have to make a correction here.

The above card (forged Willie Mays) was not certed by PSA.

Only the card was graded.

This is something I just learned today.

If the above card was certed by PSA, it would read "PSA/DNA Cert."

[homerunhitter]

So what are we as collectors to do? Seems like most people here don’t like TPAs. So if you can’t trust PSA, JSA, Beckett ,SGV etc, and now it looks like even things with topps certified authentic logo are fake if you can’t trust companies like topps then what do we collectors do!! It’s seems like 90% of autographs out there are fake. ☹️

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I have to make a correction here.



The above card (forged Willie Mays) was not certed by PSA.



Only the card was graded.



This is something I just learned today.



If the above card was certed by PSA, it would read "PSA/DNA Cert."

Shouldn’t any card with a forged sig at least get a MK qualifier?

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I have to make a correction here.

The above card (forged Willie Mays) was not certed by PSA.

Only the card was graded.

This is something I just learned today.

If the above card was certed by PSA, it would read "PSA/DNA Cert."

So, they authenticated a counterfeit card, and graded it a PSA 9.

Steve

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

So what are we as collectors to do? Seems like most people here don’t like TPAs. So if you can’t trust PSA, JSA, Beckett ,SGV etc, and now it looks like even things with topps certified authentic logo are fake if you can’t trust companies like topps then what do we collectors do!! It’s seems like 90% of autographs out there are fake. ☹️

If you use all the resources at your disposal, you can safely build a collection that has a high probability of not containing fakes:

• Study yourself
• Network with other knowledgeable collectors
• Use reputable TPAs with the understanding they are a professional opinion, but not infallible and not expert in every autograph in existence.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Steve D

So, they authenticated a counterfeit card, and graded it a PSA 9.

Steve

It should have never made it past the grading process. You don't even need to analyze the autograph... the card obviously has a grainy, low resolution image and off kilter foil stamping that screams counterfeit.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

That's why when I observe and opine an autograph, I only look at the autograph.

I do not allow any other "distraction" when opining an autograph.

I'm amazed at what the people who are really familiar with the signatures can do in that way.

For me, that stuff takes a long time to learn I just passed a decade of reading stuff here, and still can only get the big ones like Mantle and Ruth right a bit over half the time. Probably still in the coin toss range.

What for me is quick are the distractions, so I always start with those. Is the object "right"? Did it exist while the signer was alive? Does it make any sense at all?
What's odd is that I can eliminate quite a few that way.

I also don't buy any expensive ones, which helps. But odds are even some of my cheap ones are fake in some way.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

If you use all the resources at your disposal, you can safely build a collection that has a high probability of not containing fakes:

• Study yourself
• Network with other knowledgeable collectors
• Use reputable TPAs with the understanding they are a professional opinion, but not infallible and not expert is every autograph in existence.

Steve,
People would actually have to care first. It’s a lot easier to just buy something then blame someone else when it doesn’t work out the way you expected.

[homerunhitter]

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'm amazed at what the people who are really familiar with the signatures can do in that way.

For me, that stuff takes a long time to learn I just passed a decade of reading stuff here, and still can only get the big ones like Mantle and Ruth right a bit over half the time. Probably still in the coin toss range.

What for me is quick are the distractions, so I always start with those. Is the object "right"? Did it exist while the signer was alive? Does it make any sense at all?
What's odd is that I can eliminate quite a few that way.

I also don't buy any expensive ones, which helps. But odds are even some of my cheap ones are fake in some way.

Steve, I really appreciate your comment.

Every week, my "eye" picks up something new about a particular autograph.

The learning process never stops.

And to be honest, I have tried numerous times (ask Steve Zarelli) "to stop caring" and walk away from this, but when I observe an issue like forged/counterfeit cards, I can sucked back in, because I do care.

Like Michael Corleone once said "Just when I thought I was out--they pull me back in."

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Steve,
People would actually have to care first. It’s a lot easier to just buy something then blame someone else when it doesn’t work out the way you expected.

I don’t think that’s a fair comment. People buy these cards because they are a guaranteed genuine autograph from the manufacturer. There was never a reason to question these cards before. You are talking about a pack certified autographed card. And to the naked eye they did a great job with upper deck and Topps holograms and silver/gold foil. I was shocked when I got mine back from BGS as counterfeit. It wasn’t that I didn’t care - I just didn’t know this was possible. It’s important to spread the word on these boards to make everyone else aware too.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Steve D

So, they authenticated a counterfeit card, and graded it a PSA 9.

Steve

Yes.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

I don’t think that’s a fair comment. People buy these cards because they are a guaranteed genuine autograph from the manufacturer. There was never a reason to question these cards before. You are talking about a pack certified autographed card. And to the naked eye they did a great job with upper deck and Topps holograms and silver/gold foil. I was shocked when I got mine back from BGS as counterfeit. It wasn’t that I didn’t care - I just didn’t know this was possible. It’s important to spread the word on these boards to make everyone else aware too.

Adam, you make a good point.

When I scan certain autographs on Ebay, I never examine the pack-pulled autographs. Just never thought i had to.

The only reason that I caught on to the forged/counterfeit Derek Jeter "1995 Upper Deck" autograph cards was because the forgery was so bad and it stuck out like a sore thumb.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Just because it’s “pack certified” doesn’t make it authentic either. Too much blind trust in everything. Do your own homework and stop letting other people tell you what is right and wrong.

I’m not saying those comments specifically to a specific card. It’s just become way too commonplace for people to assume something. Just because someone else says something is good doesn’t make it good.

[whyconform]

AHH,

Glad other people noticed it...I posted a video on this when I immediately realized I had a fake from some eBayer TNTNorthNJ or something like that...

Those 1996 reprints are only supposed to have 60 or so of each, and the one card keeps popping up CONSTANTLY....def forgery and the fake stamp concerns me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8YMJkv24Tc&t=106s

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Just as a reminder, in addition to the Mays cards, here are some other cards which have been sold with them in quantity.

76FEE68E-BCD0-4161-AA13-CB75120AD8F3.jpg 748121A4-BCB2-4354-8C5A-AF85F860E04A.jpg
BF9EF189-D641-4B2A-B586-FACDB9E0D4CC.jpg 8A284C1F-408F-46E6-8A3F-22CE175D9814.jpg
9C170B24-6CFE-4B73-83C5-7C5A0D46A829.jpg 3B5234A6-95C1-4904-91D3-B6B112D7FC51.jpg
AA404A3D-CF84-40A4-8D73-AA808855D7F9.jpg 12CA4283-4D5E-4E5C-8886-2F1E9E9369F8.jpg

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Just as a reminder, in addition to the Mays cards, here are some other cards which have been sold with them in quantity.

Attachment 367972 Attachment 367973
Attachment 367974 Attachment 367975
Attachment 367976 Attachment 367977
Attachment 367978 Attachment 367979

Yep.

I've posted blogs on the Jeter, Koufax and Mays forged/counterfeit cards.

I will be posting a blog on the Johnny Unitas forged/counterfeit "2001 Upper Deck" autograph cards.

I am also debating posting YouTube videos on the aforementioned.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Yep.

I've posted blogs on the Jeter, Koufax and Mays forged/counterfeit cards.

I will be posting a blog on the Johnny Unitas forged/counterfeit "2001 Upper Deck" autograph cards.

I am also debating posting YouTube videos on the aforementioned.

I believe that a good portion of collectors have at least one of these. They are rampant online and I see them at shows. Put the word out wherever you can.

[homerunhitter]

I thought “pack certified” autographs were pretty much as close as authentic as possible???

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

I thought “pack certified” autographs were pretty much as close as authentic as possible???

The cards that came from Topps and Upper Deck are fine. These are not from them. They are counterfeit cards. Someone made these cards and forged the signatures.

As I said, they are very good fakes. They have foil and holograms from Topps and Upper Deck. It fooled me.

[homerunhitter]

Thank you for your response on this. I ask because I was starting to get worried because I got rid of a ton of psa certified hof autographs (sold on eBay) and used that money to “upgrade” my hof collection to pack certified hof autographs because I wanted to be 110% sure my autographs were real ( instead of those slabbed and authenticated by psa, Sgc, Beckett, JSA ..etc then I saw this thread and was like good grief! What are we as collectors suppose to do!? I bought pack pulled autos to eliminate any doubt whatsoever!!! So thank you for reassuring me that pack pulled autographs are authentic.