Joe DiMaggio autograph. Authentic?????

[mr2686]

Ok, in all fairness they didn't slide one fake by them, it was 17...but that's neither here not there. Since I respect both Steve and Chris, I put this question to you, and that is you both have to admit there is definitely a couple of holes in the system. First, the whole take your autograph to a cardshow and have them authenticate it on the spot or get an in-person autograph at a show and take it over to a separate table to have a TPA put a sticker on it is flawed. Also, the number of submissions that some of these TPA's are accepting in a year makes it hard to give each autograph the proper time needed to authenticate them. I just think they cut corners and make assumptions based on workload.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by mr2686

Ok, in all fairness they didn't slide one fake by them, it was 17...but that's neither here not there. Since I respect both Steve and Chris, I put this question to you, and that is you both have to admit there is definitely a couple of holes in the system. First, the whole take your autograph to a cardshow and have them authenticate it on the spot or get an in-person autograph at a show and take it over to a separate table to have a TPA put a sticker on it is flawed. Also, the number of submissions that some of these TPA's are accepting in a year makes it hard to give each autograph the proper time needed to authenticate them. I just think they cut corners and make assumptions based on workload.

Valid points, Mike, and no doubt, that part of the system is imperfect and must be changed.

They make it too easy for that to happen.

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Valid points, Mike, and no doubt, that part of the system is imperfect and must be changed.

They make it too easy for that to happen.

The bottom line is, nobody's absolutely right or wrong in this discussion. TPA's can be great, and they can be crappy. But the wrong thing is to assume they are one way or the other all the time, which is really why I chimed in originally. I really don't think it's en vogue to bash the TPA's here. Heck, I have several things in my collection that have TPA certs, but I certainly wouldn't have purchased them unless I had done my homework on the autograph first.
So, bottom line is, do your homework as much as possible, don't assume a TPA is right or wrong, and enjoy the hobby.

[thetruthisoutthere]

If the future, and I hope Leon agrees to this, that any photo posted that is grainy, too small, etc., should be removed until the OP can post a proper image.

Either post a clear image or don't post at all.

Collectors here share their knowledge for FREE, and the least that OP's can do is post a proper image that can be opined.

That's always been a pet peeve of mine.

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

If the future, and I hope Leon agrees to this, that any photo posted that is grainy, too small, etc., should be removed until the OP can post a proper image.

Either post a clear image or don't post at all.

Collectors here share their knowledge for FREE, and the least that OP's can do is post a proper image that can be opined.

That's always been a pet peeve of mine.

+1

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by mr2686

Ok, in all fairness they didn't slide one fake by them, it was 17...but that's neither here not there. Since I respect both Steve and Chris, I put this question to you, and that is you both have to admit there is definitely a couple of holes in the system. First, the whole take your autograph to a cardshow and have them authenticate it on the spot or get an in-person autograph at a show and take it over to a separate table to have a TPA put a sticker on it is flawed. Also, the number of submissions that some of these TPA's are accepting in a year makes it hard to give each autograph the proper time needed to authenticate them. I just think they cut corners and make assumptions based on workload.

The system is not perfect and I am not excusing mistakes. And there is nothing wrong with fair criticism.

Chris has his pet peeves and one of mine are people posting links to these videos or one-sided bashing sites like it is supposed to be some great revelation or "the final word" on the matter.

I recently rejected a terrible Apollo 11 fake that was sold by one of these "tourist gallery" places that uses one of the usual crooked forensic authenticators.

When my client requested a refund based upon me rejecting the item, guess what the crooked seller did?

Yep... they sent my client a bunch of links to videos and articles just like this one to discredit authenticators. Discredit, smear and spread fake news. This is how forgery scammers operate. While the intent of some of these pieces may be honest, in reality they don't shed much light but are rather used as a tool by dishonest parties.

By the way, my client ended up getting a refund of the many thousands of dollars he spent on a worthless fake in a fancy frame.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Another point I'd like to make is that it's easy to bash the TPA's; they won't come after you; they won't pursue you.

But if you bash the "bad guys of the hobby," they will do everything they can to discredit you and attempt to destroy your life (both Steve and myself experienced those attempts).

Truth is, like Ebay, the hobby has become more of a cesspool of forgeries and junk, and big part of that, is the aforementioned Ebay.

Although I do try to compartmentalize, it is impossible to ignore.

And what I mean by "compartmentalize," is that the hobby consists of two populations.....

Maybe twenty-percent of the hobby are true hobbyists and the other eighty-percent are the delusional autograph collectors, impulse buyers and the scammers (the ones who take advantage of the "system" and the aforementioned "delusional and impulse buyers").

You can bash the TPA's all you want, but as an example hows does a "company" like Guaranteed Forensic Authenticators (Stephen Rocchi) stay in business "Forensically Authenticating" thousands of copies of forgeries!!!!

And what about Lee Trythall and Scott Malack (Coach's Corner Auctions)!!!!

The point I am making is that collectors continue to bash the TPA's every chance they get, but they're "bored" with those that continue to expose the likes of Stephen Rocchi, Coach's Corner, Ted Taylor, Chris "I Never Saw An Autograph I Didn't Like" Morales and others.

I was on another site exposing the various forged/counterfeit cards, and I was told "It's old news, etc."

It's never "old news" as long as it continues.

The TPA's aren't perfect, but they make the headlines, but a headline about "GFA/Stephen Rocchi" just wouldn't be juicy enough.

I know I went off the rails a bit here, but I needed to vent.

[Mr. Zipper]

Preach it, brother!!

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Another point I'd like to make is that it's easy to bash the TPA's; they won't come after you; they won't pursue you.

But if you bash the "bad guys of the hobby," they will do everything they can to discredit you and attempt to destroy your life (both Steve and myself experienced those attempts).

Truth is, like Ebay, the hobby has become more of a cesspool of forgeries and junk, and big part of that, is the aforementioned Ebay.

Although I do try to compartmentalize, it is impossible to ignore.

And what I mean by "compartmentalize," is that the hobby consists of two populations.....

Maybe twenty-percent of the hobby are true hobbyists and the other eighty-percent are the delusional autograph collectors, impulse buyers and the scammers (the ones who take advantage of the "system" and the aforementioned "delusional and impulse buyers").

You can bash the TPA's all you want, but as an example hows does a "company" like Guaranteed Forensic Authenticators (Stephen Rocchi) stay in business "Forensically Authenticating" thousands of copies of forgeries!!!!

And what about Lee Trythall and Scott Malack (Coach's Corner Auctions)!!!!

The point I am making is that collectors continue to bash the TPA's every chance they get, but they're "bored" with those that continue to expose the likes of Stephen Rocchi, Coach's Corner, Ted Taylor, Chris "I Never Saw An Autograph I Didn't Like" Morales and others.

I was on another site exposing the various forged/counterfeit cards, and I was told "It's old news, etc."

It's never "old news" as long as it continues.

The TPA's aren't perfect, but they make the headlines, but a headline about "GFA/Stephen Rocchi" just wouldn't be juicy enough.

I know I went off the rails a bit here, but I needed to vent.

Chris, I'm not so sure that people are bored with those TPA's you mentioned (we all know the ones) but I think that people have thrown up their hands because the "authorities" are doing nothing. I also think that some of us try to keep the "good" ones on their toes so that they don't become the bad ones. All it takes is a few bad employees to start letting stuff slip through for money and the whole thing starts to unravel (check some of the threads on the card side of this site). Honestly, there's no good answer. Until Ebay starts being accountable, the FBI starts getting more involved, the TPA's maybe slow down their submissions, and CC gets closed down, the whole thing will be a toilet.

[shelly]

I think that we have on this site some of the best authentication people in the business.
The Joe D that we are questioning on this thread is a perfect example how you can more that one opinion. I just think that we are as good if not better than the TPA'S out there.

[Case12]

I like TPA + Net54. If there is any question of authenticity, I go with Net54. I wouldn't buy something important like Ruth or Mattewson or Clemente or Mantle without Net54. Peace of mind and trust.
In this case, when Net 54 varies this much, choose who you trust for peace of mind. For me, if there is enough question on Net 54, I pass. Who else could you trust more? Only if I physically stood there and watched Joe sign it himself.
Buying to flip an item might be different? But I don't do that...
I really appreciate how much you all have helped me...