Astros sign stealing suspensions

Jim65 · #1 01-13-2020, 02:02 PM

Alex should get much worse, involved for 2 different teams, and MLB thinks he's the mastermind behind it.

packs · #2 01-13-2020, 02:21 PM

I found the Astros punishment to be really weak. I mean, 5 million dollar fine? That's like fining me 5 bucks. If they really wanted to end cheating tomorrow, they'd lower the Astros luxury tax threshold by 30 million for the next decade and let them bleed.

packs · #3 01-13-2020, 02:22 PM

Also I don't understand how a guy who hacks a server in the offseason gets banned for life while a bunch of guys on the field cheating in game to win a World Series get 1 year bans.

doug.goodman · #4 01-13-2020, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I found the Astros punishment to be really weak. I mean, 5 million dollar fine? That's like fining me 5 bucks. If they really wanted to end cheating tomorrow, they'd lower the Astros luxury tax threshold by 30 million for the next decade and let them bleed.

$5mil is the maximum allowed by the league constitution.

clydepepper · #5 01-13-2020, 03:14 PM

Big WOW!!

Aquarian Sports Cards · #6 01-13-2020, 03:16 PM

Also took first two picks in draft for next two years. Basically a ban on the GM and Hinch too. Who's going to hire them now (They've been fired)

doug.goodman · #7 01-13-2020, 03:50 PM

In explaining why no players were punished the Commish said :

“Assessing discipline of players for this type of conduct is both difficult and impractical. It is difficult, because virtually all of the Astros’ players had some involvement or knowledge of the scheme, and I am not in a position based on the investigative record to determine with any degree of certainty every player who should be held accountable, or their relative degree of culpability.

“It is impractical given the large number of players involved, and the fact that many of those players now play for other clubs.”

If "virtually all" of the player were involved then their WS championship should be taken away from them.

There should not be a champion in 2018. Sorry. I meant 2017 I got my "Dodgers sucked in the WS" years confused.

Doug "which isn't to say that the Dodgers deserve it" Goodman

Jim65 · #8 01-13-2020, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

In explaining why no players were punished the Commish said :

�Assessing discipline of players for this type of conduct is both difficult and impractical. It is difficult, because virtually all of the Astros� players had some involvement or knowledge of the scheme, and I am not in a position based on the investigative record to determine with any degree of certainty every player who should be held accountable, or their relative degree of culpability.

�It is impractical given the large number of players involved, and the fact that many of those players now play for other clubs.�

If "virtually all" of the player were involved then their WS championship should be taken away from them.

There should not be a champion in 2018. Sorry. I meant 2017 I got my "Dodgers sucked in the WS" years confused.

Doug "which isn't to say that the Dodgers deserve it" Goodman

Manfred can say whatever he wants, he doesn't want to take on the Union by suspending players. The problem is, there is no deterrent to players cheating again, if theres no punishment for them.

AGuinness · #9 01-13-2020, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I found the Astros punishment to be really weak. I mean, 5 million dollar fine? That's like fining me 5 bucks. If they really wanted to end cheating tomorrow, they'd lower the Astros luxury tax threshold by 30 million for the next decade and let them bleed.

The money was apparently the most allowed by MLB, even if it is pocket change for the owner/franchise. But there were also four draft picks taken away, too (plus the personnel suspensions).

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Also I don't understand how a guy who hacks a server in the offseason gets banned for life while a bunch of guys on the field cheating in game to win a World Series get 1 year bans.

If you're referring to Chris Correa, formerly of the Cardinals, he also got sentenced to four years in a federal prison (not sure if he served it all).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Who's going to hire them now (They've been fired)

That's an interesting question, although I actually could see Luhnow landing somewhere as a consultant or what not. He's got plausible deniability, plus he isn't going to be in uniform/be visible/have to do press conferences. Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire both landed hitting coach gigs after their scandals.

doug.goodman · #10 01-13-2020, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGuinness

I could actually see Luhnow landing somewhere as a consultant or what not. He's got plausible deniability

No he doesn't.

If he did, he wouldn't have been suspended for a year, and fired.

Doug "but I do" Goodman

packs · #11 01-13-2020, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

$5mil is the maximum allowed by the league constitution.

Does the constitution say anything about lowering the luxury tax threshold for a team?

vintagetoppsguy · #12 05-12-2022, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I found the Astros punishment to be really weak. I mean, 5 million dollar fine? That's like fining me 5 bucks. If they really wanted to end cheating tomorrow, they'd lower the Astros luxury tax threshold by 30 million for the next decade and let them bleed.

Since you found the Astros punishment to be really weak, how do you think the Yankees should be punished given what has come to light?

I find it funny how so many people voiced their opinions about the Astros cheating scandal, but are dead silent about the Yankees cheating scandal.

butchie_t · #13 05-12-2022, 07:48 AM

I don't like the fact that no team, player, manager, etc. got punished enough once it all came to light. MLB pretty much threw a blind eye to the entire thing and just wanted it to go away. Effectively wrist slaps and come on back and play.

Pete Rose, who is no saint in my book. Did much less in comparison and he was/is ostracized and shunned for his actions. IMHO

Everyone involved in cheating at this level should be facing a lifetime ban from the sport. But that will never happen.

Bring back the Mountain, he'll set things right.

My take on this cheating crap.

My take on why Houston has more focus than other teams is because they won the Series and were cheating. Still does not absolve any other team for doing this BTW.

Butch Turner

Hxcmilkshake · #14 05-12-2022, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Since you found the Astros punishment to be really weak, how do you think the Yankees should be punished given what has come to light?

I find it funny how so many people voiced their opinions about the Astros cheating scandal, but are dead silent about the Yankees cheating scandal.

Yankees were punished. Astros were more bold and brazen with their actions so yeah they are getting killed. And they won so that adds to it.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

vintagetoppsguy · #15 05-12-2022, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake

Yankees were punished. Astros were more bold and brazen with their actions so yeah they are getting killed. And they won so that adds to it.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

How were they punished? As far as I can tell, they were only fined $100K...unless I missed something else.

Besides, I think my point was missed. Here's a guy saying, "I found the Astros punishment to be really weak" but is absolutely silent when his own team gets caught. Do you not see the irony?

Hxcmilkshake · #16 05-12-2022, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

How were they punished? As far as I can tell, they were only fined $100K...unless I missed something else.

Nope. Thats right.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

BobC · #17 05-12-2022, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

How were they punished? As far as I can tell, they were only fined $100K...unless I missed something else.

Besides, I think my point was missed. Here's a guy saying, "I found the Astros punishment to be really weak" but is absolutely silent when his own team gets caught. Do you not see the irony?

Dave,

The more correct term you're looking for isn't irony, its hypocrisy!

Jim65 · #18 05-12-2022, 10:27 AM

While both situations were against the rules, the Astros cheated after the Commissioners memo warning teams there would be severe punishment for electronic sign stealing. They were warned but did it any way, thats why the team, GM and manager were punished more harshly.

egri · #19 05-13-2022, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Since you found the Astros punishment to be really weak, how do you think the Yankees should be punished given what has come to light?

I find it funny how so many people voiced their opinions about the Astros cheating scandal, but are dead silent about the Yankees cheating scandal.

While I've also noticed packs's selective blindness, he's only posted on the forum five times since October. I think that's the reason for his silence here.

AGuinness · #20 01-13-2020, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim65

Alex should get much worse, involved for 2 different teams, and MLB thinks he's the mastermind behind it.

Cora is going to get hit very very hard...

packs · #21 01-13-2020, 04:05 PM

I was referring to Correa, but what does criminality have to do with violating the rules of baseball? Pete Rose wasn't banned for violating federal law.

In the most simplistic terms, Correa logged into his old account and looked at scouting reports in the off season.

I fail to see how what Correa did was more egregious to the game than what the Astros did. His lifetime ban is meant to deter behavior.

AGuinness · #22 01-13-2020, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I was referring to Correa, but what does criminality have to do with violating the rules of baseball? Pete Rose wasn't banned for violating federal law.

In the most simplistic terms, Correa logged into his old account and looked at scouting reports in the off season.

I fail to see how what Correa did was more egregious to the game than what the Astros did. His lifetime ban is meant to deter behavior.

Well, as to the last part you write, I guess that's just different viewpoints. Breaking a federal law is more egregious on many levels. And look at the facts of Correa, because it wasn't his old account, he hacked into the Astros computers more than 48 times.

packs · #23 01-14-2020, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGuinness

Well, as to the last part you write, I guess that's just different viewpoints. Breaking a federal law is more egregious on many levels. And look at the facts of Correa, because it wasn't his old account, he hacked into the Astros computers more than 48 times.

I suppose the weight of a federal crime might have influenced the lifetime ban, but you can also ban players and personnel for damage to the game. Alex Rodriguez was suspended for an entire season because of his conduct off the field. These are players and personnel whose conduct ON the field conceivably altered the outcomes of games in real time. Yet the penalties meted out for A-rod, a player who took PEDs, are the same as the penalties meted out for the GM and manager of a team actively cheating in game. Altering the outcomes of games has traditionally been something you get a lifetime ban for.

egri · #24 01-14-2020, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGuinness

Cora is going to get hit very very hard...

He was fired earlier today.

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